well, I guess I do agree to a certain extent, at least when slash threatens to stop being a specific and very cool strategy for writing stories and to become a kind of overarching, blunt, one-size-fits-all way of approaching all narrative of any genre or period whatsoever.

I think I tend to be/sound hypocritical about slash, because I have a doublethink thing going on. On the one hand I read it and write it and enjoy it, and can probably be sold on pretty much any pairing if it's well written. But on the other hand I do sometimes feel kind of weary or disappointed that friendship can't be put upon a pedastal and celebrated too for its own sake. (I already had this rant about Frodo/Sam, actually - I'm not dead set against it, and have indeed read one story which did win me over entirely, but the whole damned point for me is that Sam's relationship with Frodo is not selfish. If someone wants to read it in an erotic way, with Sam being motivated by the impulse to get into Frodo's pants - well, this pisses me off, because I just don't buy it. But having the love/adoration/devotion/blah blah blah encompass physical love, rather than being based on it - well, I could be convinced of this. See also assorted other slashable pairings.)

I got embroiled in a bit of a debate about this a couple of weeks ago with someone who (as I understand it) views all characters/people as heterosexual by default unless proven otherwise, and this made me realise that I tend to take bisexual as a default setting. This isn't to say that I'll read all characters as bisexual, because there are characters I tend to think of as pretty much straight (simply because of the way my gaydar is pinged) and others I think of as pretty much gay. But because I'm attracted to both boys and girls, and because an awful lot of people I know aren't straight (regardless of whether their parents/employers/casual acquaintances realise this) I tend to have bi as a default setting in my interpretation of fictional characters.

(Um. Also I'm quite horrendously romantic, at heart, and this means that I'm fond of readings that favour eros over agape, where it seems like a half way reasonable extrapolation. I don't always *believe* them, but I often enjoy them.)

I always thought Laertes, as presented, was grieving less for his sister and completely unlikeable father than he was for Hamlet's not loving him.

blinks

I must confess, I've never considered this. I can see that one could play the role that way, but it isn't the first reading I'd have considered. I'm going to have to think on this.

Well, there is reading Olivia of "12th Night" as a lesbian, since she was rejecting all men, except for the one she heard that didn't really seem like a man, and ended up being a woman in drag.

Oh, I do love Twelfth Night. And it really is wonderfully fun in that sense - Sebastian/Antonio is very difficult to play as heterosexual in this day and age, but perhaps was more understandable (especially with the sense of class - as with Frodo/Sam) in non-sexual terms at the time. However, all the girl/girl love scenes are fabulous fun. Especially with the business of being played by boys. Entirely my cup of Typhoo.

(Olivia's also the only majorish Shakespearean role I ever played. Man, I'd love to play Viola - but a blind man wouldn't mistake me for a boy, so that was never on the cards. Alas.)

eta Oh my GOD. Andrew! My darling little gay geekboy Andrew! He is Sir Andrew Aguecheek - "I was adored once too" - to Warren's nasty Sir Toby.

That is exactly the kind of site I was looking for, Ple. I knew you were the expert to ask. I had a little trouble figuring out that the result loaded in the "menu" frame, there.

I think I need to subscribe to find out what my friend asked me, which is okay. I think he wants to know about half-brothers or half-sisters of his horse, so I need to do a progeny search. He told me the

• "grandmom": Sugs Gay Lady
• "grandad": Dash For Cash
• "mom": Good Judgement [sic]
• "dad": Roll the Cash
• Look in the sib group that has:
  • Miss Clabber Do
  • Joe Reed
  • Chicano Sizzler
  • Leo II

It looks like most of these horses haven't been reported to the database yet [Edit: probably because it's some no-'count rodeo thing, not racing], but it's still a find. Thanks.

(IIRC, A. C. Bradley once wrote an essay called "Where was Hamlet when his father died?"--the kind of thing that used to give Shakespeare scholars sleepless nights in the olden days.)

Oh! Shakespeare is the spirit sire of Xander's Lie!

Am I the only one here that's read Thurber's "The MacBeth Murder Mystery"? Highly recommended, unfortunately, it's not out of copyright, so you have to go read it at a library....

Fay, I feel exactly the same ambivalence. Part of what makes me resent the Angel/Cordy love thing (apart from the fact that I find it implausible in itself) is that I enjoyed the Angel/Cordy friendship so much.

And for the record, I'm very very pro queer readings of Shakespeare and all early modern texts--but preferably ones that acknowledge that same-sex desire won't necessarily occur in the same contexts (close friendships between "equals") where we would tend to look for it these days.

Where's slash, where's not... it's tricky. At the moment, I have to take it on a case by case basis, imagine it both ways round, and even then I can change my mind quite readily.

preferably ones that acknowledge that same-sex desire won't necessarily occur in the same contexts (close friendships between "equals") where we would tend to look for it these days.

Would you care to expand on where it would occur? You've got me interigued.

And while we're on the subject, has anyone read Robert Nye Mrs Shakespeare, The Complete Works ? It's RPF, with a good dose of RPS. And stylistically quite good, IMHO.

And while we're on the subject, has anyone read Robert Nye Mrs Shakespeare, The Complete Works ? It's RPF, with a good dose of RPS. And stylistically quite good, IMHO.

I have The Late Mr. Shakespeare and loved it. Must. Get. This.

Am-Chau--the very short and oversimplified version: traditionally, in Western cultures, sex between men happened most frequently in strongly hierarchical contexts, whether the hierarchy was of age, of status, of power or of class. (Of course this was also true, by definition, of sex between men and women.)

Is Nye a British-type author? I don't believe I've heard of him.

I have The Late Mr. Shakespeare and loved it. Must. Get. This.

Do, Cashmere-- who's The Late Mr. Shakespeare by, BTW? I haven't read that.

the very short and oversimplified version: traditionally, in Western cultures, sex between men happened most frequently in strongly hierarchical contexts, whether the hierarchy was of age, of status, of power or of class. (Of course this was also true, by definition, of sex between men and women.)

So (thinks, picks random examples) Romeo/Mercutio (equals) is less likely than Olivia/Viola (unequal power)?