Am I the only one here that's read Thurber's "The MacBeth Murder Mystery"? Highly recommended, unfortunately, it's not out of copyright, so you have to go read it at a library....
Anya, the Shopkeepers of America called. They wanted me to tell you that 'please go' just got replaced with 'have a nice day.'
Xander ,'Selfless'
All Ogle, No Cash -- It's Not Just Annoying, It's Un-American
Discussion of episodes currently airing in Un-American locations (anything that's aired in Australia is fair game), as well as anything else the Un-Americans feel like talking about or we feel like asking them. Please use the show discussion threads for any current-season discussion.
Add yourself to the Buffista map while you're here by updating your profile.
Theodosia - May 11, 2003 8:03:16 am PDT #4608 of 9843
'we all walk this earth feeling we are frauds. The trick is to be grateful and hope the caper doesn't end any time soon"
Angus G - May 11, 2003 8:26:06 am PDT #4609 of 9843
Roguish Laird
Fay, I feel exactly the same ambivalence. Part of what makes me resent the Angel/Cordy love thing (apart from the fact that I find it implausible in itself) is that I enjoyed the Angel/Cordy friendship so much.
And for the record, I'm very very pro queer readings of Shakespeare and all early modern texts--but preferably ones that acknowledge that same-sex desire won't necessarily occur in the same contexts (close friendships between "equals") where we would tend to look for it these days.
Am-Chau Yarkona - May 11, 2003 8:56:50 am PDT #4610 of 9843
I bop to Wittgenstein. -- Nutty
Where's slash, where's not... it's tricky. At the moment, I have to take it on a case by case basis, imagine it both ways round, and even then I can change my mind quite readily.
preferably ones that acknowledge that same-sex desire won't necessarily occur in the same contexts (close friendships between "equals") where we would tend to look for it these days.
Would you care to expand on where it would occur? You've got me interigued.
And while we're on the subject, has anyone read Robert Nye Mrs Shakespeare, The Complete Works ? It's RPF, with a good dose of RPS. And stylistically quite good, IMHO.
Cashmere - May 11, 2003 9:05:24 am PDT #4611 of 9843
Now tagless for your comfort.
And while we're on the subject, has anyone read Robert Nye Mrs Shakespeare, The Complete Works ? It's RPF, with a good dose of RPS. And stylistically quite good, IMHO.
I have The Late Mr. Shakespeare and loved it. Must. Get. This.
Angus G - May 11, 2003 9:05:56 am PDT #4612 of 9843
Roguish Laird
Am-Chau--the very short and oversimplified version: traditionally, in Western cultures, sex between men happened most frequently in strongly hierarchical contexts, whether the hierarchy was of age, of status, of power or of class. (Of course this was also true, by definition, of sex between men and women.)
Theodosia - May 11, 2003 9:07:13 am PDT #4613 of 9843
'we all walk this earth feeling we are frauds. The trick is to be grateful and hope the caper doesn't end any time soon"
Is Nye a British-type author? I don't believe I've heard of him.
Am-Chau Yarkona - May 11, 2003 9:13:22 am PDT #4614 of 9843
I bop to Wittgenstein. -- Nutty
I have The Late Mr. Shakespeare and loved it. Must. Get. This.
Do, Cashmere-- who's The Late Mr. Shakespeare by, BTW? I haven't read that.
the very short and oversimplified version: traditionally, in Western cultures, sex between men happened most frequently in strongly hierarchical contexts, whether the hierarchy was of age, of status, of power or of class. (Of course this was also true, by definition, of sex between men and women.)
So (thinks, picks random examples) Romeo/Mercutio (equals) is less likely than Olivia/Viola (unequal power)?
Am-Chau Yarkona - May 11, 2003 9:17:43 am PDT #4615 of 9843
I bop to Wittgenstein. -- Nutty
Theo: Googles Yes, British, so it says here.
This provides a biblography, a quick glance at which reveals that I'm an idiot, as he wrote The Late Mr. Shakespeare as well as Mrs Shakespeare: The Complete Works.
Angus G - May 11, 2003 9:18:32 am PDT #4616 of 9843
Roguish Laird
No, I'm just talking about men. Women didn't officially have a sexuality so they could get away with more! (Or something.)
Am-Chau Yarkona - May 11, 2003 9:28:56 am PDT #4617 of 9843
I bop to Wittgenstein. -- Nutty
So, slash and femslash are completely different issues here?
Right.
That makes a lot of sense, actually, but it makes coming up with examples harder. Plus the fact that the Shakespeare plays I've studied in enough detail to feel I know them as slashable canon are few. Romeo/Mercutio (equal) vs. Romeo/Paris (unequal, and possibly based on a false assumption regarding the actual text)? Julius/Brutus (nearly-equals) vs. Cassius/Pindarus (very unequal-- Pindarus is a servant if not a slave)?
edit: or should I just shut up already?