well, I guess I do agree to a certain extent, at least when slash threatens to stop being a specific and very cool strategy for writing stories and to become a kind of overarching, blunt, one-size-fits-all way of approaching all narrative of any genre or period whatsoever.

Yeah, I've had the same reaction at times, where people see most, if not all, close friendships through the rosy slash-lenses and end up excluding a variety of other factors in taking that interpretation. On the flip side, with the 'sexualized everything' bit--well, I don't think that's a specifically slash-related phenomenon, because women and men's relationships are constantly sexualized where canonically there's only friendship and no one bats an eyelid.

The Hamlet/Horatio thing was something I saw mostly in the performances, and it didn't really strike me until the final scene were Horatio was this close to drinking from the poisoned cup so he could follow Hamlet into death. To me, from my 21st century standpoint, it just seemed that maybe there was more than friendship there. Though it must be admitted that in Shakespeare, people tend towards suicide more easily than is perhaps usual.

Sob. Y'all Brits are giving up wigs? And taking the drama out of the robes?

FWIW, I always told my dad that he should turn up in court in a kaftan and beads and carrying a guitar, saying "I'd like to tell this in my own way."

Ple, yes of course Edward II is gay! (Well, he liked fucking men, anyway). And really, go for it everyone, I'm not used to being the one in the position of discouraging people from reading stuff as gay! I've said my bit.

Ple, yes of course Edward II is gay! (Well, he liked fucking men, anyway). And really, go for it everyone, I'm not used to being the one in the position of discouraging people from reading stuff as gay! I've said my bit.

Of course, I'm in the odd position of assuming gay first. Which means it took several years to find out my now husband was actually trying to pick up on me.

Hey, PMM, I've been looking for you. My rodeo buddy wants me to use that there Internet thing to look up some pedigree for his horse whose grandad was Dash for Cash. I got far enough to find out Dash for Cash sired 1500 foals... is there a main resource site for pedigrees that you would go to first? I always have trouble finding genealogy on the Net.

I think there may be an all breed pedigree resource at [link] still. I used to be very active in the TB database there.

Hmm. I think I'd have to know the registered name of said horse, and/or the dam's name, in order to find anything. QH's allow for the use of AI, so the foal crops are huge (though even without AI, thanks to large books and shuttle stallions, the TB crops are getting there. Insane, it is.), which means you need some fairly specific information to pull up pedigree info online.

well, I guess I do agree to a certain extent, at least when slash threatens to stop being a specific and very cool strategy for writing stories and to become a kind of overarching, blunt, one-size-fits-all way of approaching all narrative of any genre or period whatsoever.

I think I tend to be/sound hypocritical about slash, because I have a doublethink thing going on. On the one hand I read it and write it and enjoy it, and can probably be sold on pretty much any pairing if it's well written. But on the other hand I do sometimes feel kind of weary or disappointed that friendship can't be put upon a pedastal and celebrated too for its own sake. (I already had this rant about Frodo/Sam, actually - I'm not dead set against it, and have indeed read one story which did win me over entirely, but the whole damned point for me is that Sam's relationship with Frodo is not selfish. If someone wants to read it in an erotic way, with Sam being motivated by the impulse to get into Frodo's pants - well, this pisses me off, because I just don't buy it. But having the love/adoration/devotion/blah blah blah encompass physical love, rather than being based on it - well, I could be convinced of this. See also assorted other slashable pairings.)

I got embroiled in a bit of a debate about this a couple of weeks ago with someone who (as I understand it) views all characters/people as heterosexual by default unless proven otherwise, and this made me realise that I tend to take bisexual as a default setting. This isn't to say that I'll read all characters as bisexual, because there are characters I tend to think of as pretty much straight (simply because of the way my gaydar is pinged) and others I think of as pretty much gay. But because I'm attracted to both boys and girls, and because an awful lot of people I know aren't straight (regardless of whether their parents/employers/casual acquaintances realise this) I tend to have bi as a default setting in my interpretation of fictional characters.

(Um. Also I'm quite horrendously romantic, at heart, and this means that I'm fond of readings that favour eros over agape, where it seems like a half way reasonable extrapolation. I don't always *believe* them, but I often enjoy them.)

I always thought Laertes, as presented, was grieving less for his sister and completely unlikeable father than he was for Hamlet's not loving him.

blinks

I must confess, I've never considered this. I can see that one could play the role that way, but it isn't the first reading I'd have considered. I'm going to have to think on this.

Well, there is reading Olivia of "12th Night" as a lesbian, since she was rejecting all men, except for the one she heard that didn't really seem like a man, and ended up being a woman in drag.

Oh, I do love Twelfth Night. And it really is wonderfully fun in that sense - Sebastian/Antonio is very difficult to play as heterosexual in this day and age, but perhaps was more understandable (especially with the sense of class - as with Frodo/Sam) in non-sexual terms at the time. However, all the girl/girl love scenes are fabulous fun. Especially with the business of being played by boys. Entirely my cup of Typhoo.

(Olivia's also the only majorish Shakespearean role I ever played. Man, I'd love to play Viola - but a blind man wouldn't mistake me for a boy, so that was never on the cards. Alas.)

eta Oh my GOD. Andrew! My darling little gay geekboy Andrew! He is Sir Andrew Aguecheek - "I was adored once too" - to Warren's nasty Sir Toby.

That is exactly the kind of site I was looking for, Ple. I knew you were the expert to ask. I had a little trouble figuring out that the result loaded in the "menu" frame, there.

I think I need to subscribe to find out what my friend asked me, which is okay. I think he wants to know about half-brothers or half-sisters of his horse, so I need to do a progeny search. He told me the

• "grandmom": Sugs Gay Lady
• "grandad": Dash For Cash
• "mom": Good Judgement [sic]
• "dad": Roll the Cash
• Look in the sib group that has:
  • Miss Clabber Do
  • Joe Reed
  • Chicano Sizzler
  • Leo II

It looks like most of these horses haven't been reported to the database yet [Edit: probably because it's some no-'count rodeo thing, not racing], but it's still a find. Thanks.

(IIRC, A. C. Bradley once wrote an essay called "Where was Hamlet when his father died?"--the kind of thing that used to give Shakespeare scholars sleepless nights in the olden days.)

Oh! Shakespeare is the spirit sire of Xander's Lie!

Am I the only one here that's read Thurber's "The MacBeth Murder Mystery"? Highly recommended, unfortunately, it's not out of copyright, so you have to go read it at a library....