I don't have Hec's certainty, but I think evidence strongly points to some measure of pedophilia. I also think he was a tortured soul and a musical genius.

This is where I fall, too. I do think there's enough rumor, testimony and evidence to suggest that something criminal may have happened.

I don't think enough to convict, necessarily, at least with what we have to work with. And Hec, I think we can agree that, while the testimony from the book you mention is damning, it is presented without a defensive rebuttal.

I also agree with Hec that bringing up recovered memories only clouds this particular issue. There were no "recovered" memories in Jackson's case.

I didn't mean to upset anyone with my post, and I'm so sorry if I did.

In no way was I upset, I was just responding.

I'm with Sean on this. Sorry to keep going back to this case, but it is the first-hand exeprience I have withg long-term molestation. When charges came up at the school I worked at, parents of the two cases we found out about were FIERCE that their kids not go to court and that no one could know what happened. Like, threatening to sue fierce.

My first-hand experience is with a false accusation. There was one accusation (and then eventually a second one by a girl ten years older) and not dozens. They had too many former students and athletes who wanted to testify as character witnesses to use us all (not a problem with actual pedophiles). He, his wife, and even his children were subjected to odious behaviour by the press and the public. Even though he was found not guilty the damage was borne by that family for years. And in the twenty years since there have been no further allegations nevermind a bunch of them.

Quiche made with mooshed-up edamame?

AWESOME.

I have been waiting to hear the verdict! Glad it turned out well.

I like it better than the previous, edamame-less version.

My first-hand experience is with a false accusation.

This is why both you and Scrappy would probably not be allowed on the jury of a child molestation case, and rightly so. Hec (and I think he would probably agree on this) should never be allowed anywhere near a child molestation jury because of what happened to his mom. There are very good reasons people with strong personal feelings about a particular case should not be involved in deciding the truth of that particular matter or what punishment, if any, deserves to be meted out.

I also think this is a fascinating discussion, but that there's a couple of things we should all remember when talking about this -- there's no question that something questionable happened, and probably to multiple people. The sheer fact that this is a topic of discussion all over the world today speaks to that. But this is also not a real trial, and the defendant is no longer around to defend himself, so there's also no way to convict him in absentia, either.

and that not only did his handlers keep him from a normal existence all of his life, but also shielded him from treatment and real diagnosis, lest it upset money machine.

I think Michael Jackson, like Howard Hughes and Elvis, was an example of the danger of being very crazy and very rich. If you're very rich, you can always find someone to cater to your delusions and supply all the drugs and risky medical procedures you ask for. The people who feed and profit off their madness should have a special hell.

there's no question that something questionable happened

I don't know. If I question that something questionable happened, does that make it questionable?

I think Michael Jackson, like Howard Hughes and Elvis, was an example of the danger of being very crazy and very rich.

I think you're not that far off the mark there, Ginger. I was just reading this article and it's a really fascinating look at him before the complete crazy, but where you could see the seeds of it definitely being sown.

[link]