I have been waiting to hear the verdict! Glad it turned out well.

I like it better than the previous, edamame-less version.

My first-hand experience is with a false accusation.

This is why both you and Scrappy would probably not be allowed on the jury of a child molestation case, and rightly so. Hec (and I think he would probably agree on this) should never be allowed anywhere near a child molestation jury because of what happened to his mom. There are very good reasons people with strong personal feelings about a particular case should not be involved in deciding the truth of that particular matter or what punishment, if any, deserves to be meted out.

I also think this is a fascinating discussion, but that there's a couple of things we should all remember when talking about this -- there's no question that something questionable happened, and probably to multiple people. The sheer fact that this is a topic of discussion all over the world today speaks to that. But this is also not a real trial, and the defendant is no longer around to defend himself, so there's also no way to convict him in absentia, either.

and that not only did his handlers keep him from a normal existence all of his life, but also shielded him from treatment and real diagnosis, lest it upset money machine.

I think Michael Jackson, like Howard Hughes and Elvis, was an example of the danger of being very crazy and very rich. If you're very rich, you can always find someone to cater to your delusions and supply all the drugs and risky medical procedures you ask for. The people who feed and profit off their madness should have a special hell.

there's no question that something questionable happened

I don't know. If I question that something questionable happened, does that make it questionable?

I think Michael Jackson, like Howard Hughes and Elvis, was an example of the danger of being very crazy and very rich.

I think you're not that far off the mark there, Ginger. I was just reading this article and it's a really fascinating look at him before the complete crazy, but where you could see the seeds of it definitely being sown.

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If I question that something questionable happened, does that make it questionable?

Not if your questioning is questionable.

I think Michael Jackson, like Howard Hughes and Elvis, was an example of the danger of being very crazy and very rich. If you're very rich, you can always find someone to cater to your delusions and supply all the drugs and risky medical procedures you ask for. The people who feed and profit off their madness should have a special hell.

Yes this. I don't know whether Jackson was or wasn't mentally capable of determining right from wrong when it came to his interaction with children. But I think that, if he did commit any criminal acts, the people who protected and enabled him are just as culpable for the acts committed as Michael was. Possibly even more so.

but that there's a couple of things we should all remember when talking about this -- there's no question that something questionable happened, and probably to multiple people. The sheer fact that this is a topic of discussion all over the world today speaks to that.

I can't agree with that statement. There is no question that there were two accusations. There are multiple further rumors. And people all over the world will talk about something for a long time as long as its selacious enough -- Fatty Arbuckle and the Rosenbergs speak to that.

I need to roll, I am off to a family wedding. So I'm out. But before I go I'll point out two things:

I'd encourage people when discussing this make clear distinctions between what they think and what they know. The Michael is a Pedophile conclusion is made up largely of things we think. Widely, commonly, everybody knows... but just think. (And it is also comforting in a way -- the guy was a freak and if pedophiles are freaks we can see that clearly and keep away from them.)

The other is that there IS a clear pedophile profile that involves dozens of children for tens of years with many coming forward once the initial allegation is made. That didn't happen in 1994 and it hasn't happened in the quarter century since.

Time will tell on this. Time WILL tell. Even when actively covered up the dam eventually breaks. If there are a bunch more, it happened. If there aren't, it very most likely did not.

If I question that something questionable happened, does that make it questionable?

Not if your questioning is questionable.

Unquestionably.

I decided to make a "warts and all" post on Craigslist for my white Aerostar that Andi and i are selling to a junkyard tomorrow morning.

[link]

I wonder if we'll get any bites?