there's no question that something questionable happened

I don't know. If I question that something questionable happened, does that make it questionable?

I think Michael Jackson, like Howard Hughes and Elvis, was an example of the danger of being very crazy and very rich.

I think you're not that far off the mark there, Ginger. I was just reading this article and it's a really fascinating look at him before the complete crazy, but where you could see the seeds of it definitely being sown.

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If I question that something questionable happened, does that make it questionable?

Not if your questioning is questionable.

I think Michael Jackson, like Howard Hughes and Elvis, was an example of the danger of being very crazy and very rich. If you're very rich, you can always find someone to cater to your delusions and supply all the drugs and risky medical procedures you ask for. The people who feed and profit off their madness should have a special hell.

Yes this. I don't know whether Jackson was or wasn't mentally capable of determining right from wrong when it came to his interaction with children. But I think that, if he did commit any criminal acts, the people who protected and enabled him are just as culpable for the acts committed as Michael was. Possibly even more so.

but that there's a couple of things we should all remember when talking about this -- there's no question that something questionable happened, and probably to multiple people. The sheer fact that this is a topic of discussion all over the world today speaks to that.

I can't agree with that statement. There is no question that there were two accusations. There are multiple further rumors. And people all over the world will talk about something for a long time as long as its selacious enough -- Fatty Arbuckle and the Rosenbergs speak to that.

I need to roll, I am off to a family wedding. So I'm out. But before I go I'll point out two things:

I'd encourage people when discussing this make clear distinctions between what they think and what they know. The Michael is a Pedophile conclusion is made up largely of things we think. Widely, commonly, everybody knows... but just think. (And it is also comforting in a way -- the guy was a freak and if pedophiles are freaks we can see that clearly and keep away from them.)

The other is that there IS a clear pedophile profile that involves dozens of children for tens of years with many coming forward once the initial allegation is made. That didn't happen in 1994 and it hasn't happened in the quarter century since.

Time will tell on this. Time WILL tell. Even when actively covered up the dam eventually breaks. If there are a bunch more, it happened. If there aren't, it very most likely did not.

If I question that something questionable happened, does that make it questionable?

Not if your questioning is questionable.

Unquestionably.

I decided to make a "warts and all" post on Craigslist for my white Aerostar that Andi and i are selling to a junkyard tomorrow morning.

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I wonder if we'll get any bites?

And I can't agree with this, Trudes:

Time will tell on this. Time WILL tell. Even when actively covered up the dam eventually breaks.

I don't agree that this is true in normal circumstances, and in this particular case, we're talking about one of the biggest celebrities in the history of the world. I see no reason at all to think the Jackson's death would suddenly loosen the lips of those who stayed silent while he was alive. His death would be meaningless to someone who was keeping it quiet. Jackson's family, lawyers and fans all continue to live, and his actual living presence is utterly irrelevant to whatever feelings of shame they might feel.

I also saw my doctor today for my diabetes checkup. She said I was doing well and I don't have to see her for six months.

My total Cholesterol is now 113. (61 for ldl, 39 for hdl.)and my A1c dropped to 7.2. not as good as I'd like, but a couple of points better than it was.

I baffled another new nurse with my weight and yet having a pulse of 63. Sorry Nurse, not every fat person fits the stereotype.

I kind of do agree with her, if for no other reason that if the Catholic Church couldn't keep a lid on for as long as they would have liked, then MJ's estate might not be able to, either.

Let me put it this way, there's no disputation about the fact that MJ did sleep with minor boys. He got into bed with them and snuggled.

Now, the tendency is to think this is the lesser transgression, compared to having sexual contact with the boys. Which is true. However, the fact that he would initiate intimate physical contact with them is a huge marker on the profile of a pedophile. Because he's already leapt over the the clearly marked cultural boundary which forbids adult men from snuggling with young boys that aren't their children.

So, he had no restraint on this boundary of physical intimacy and we know he wanted to initiate contact with young boys and we have multiple allegations from a variety of credible sources that he went even further.

That's the profile of somebody with pedophile tendencies.

For what it's worth, Sean, I also have personal experience with false accusations and recovered memories. Not directed at me, but EM's father was accused by EM's sister, based entirely on recovered memories (even though the false memories were contradicted by provable fact and records). It was devastating to the whole family, and I read up on the subject a lot. There's a devastating TAL piece on it ("Ask the Experts" I think).