Anyway, I'm not interested in arguing the facts (such as they are) with you, Trudy. You've already come to a conclusion that I doubt will be swayed.

You're the one using terms like "many many," and dismissing the court appointed psychologist as just an opinion, David. I'm not sure why you're so adamant about the quality of your facts.

The guy I worked with, Trudy, molested dozens (probably more) kids over a 20-year period. These were kids from wealthy families in an elite school. None of them EVER told on him until years later--some of them are just coming forward now. [link]

I can imagine that kids with far less resources and education would be even less likely to speak up.

I am aware that children often don't come forward for years. And that parents allow things to be covered up. And that people of less means are less likely to speak up particularly against an athority figure. The coverups in the Catholic Church have established all those things all too clearly. It is a clear pattern.

It's not a sense of dozens of vague accuasations though, and its not now-Adults insisting every thing was fine -- it's complete radio silence. And its radio silence that ends pretty dramatically with the initial accusations being quickly followed by many others. Even if it took twenty years we'd have heard more by now and we have not.

There could yet be more information. Absolutely. And if there is there will be a landslide of it -- because dozens of victims for decades at a time is what happens. That, actually, is what would sway me because that would be a pedophile. Two victims in thirty years of adulthood is not -- just two victims is fiction.

That goes both ways. $25 million dollars also buys a lot of therapy and keeps your family out of the media circus of a trial against the single biggest celebrity in the world.

To be a bit cynical, they also may worry about not being able to win a case against someone with those financial resources and fame regardless of how good their case may be.

The thing with kids memories is how the charges of abuse at preschools and daycare centers sometimes get out of hand. One kid reports abuse, and every other parent rightfully gets concerned and asks their kid if anything like that ever happened to them, and at least a few of those kids, even if nothing ever happened, will end up saying yes after a few rounds of "Are you sure?" and then the remaining parents get even more worried, because now there are ten kids from their kid's class saying that the teacher abused them, so they go and ask their kids "Are you sure?" a few more times, and it just spirals.

And the problem with sorting this all out is that these kids actually do believe it happened to them. Unless a kid's story includes some obviously false details, there's really no good way to tell the difference between a kid telling what actually happened and a kid telling what he or she thinks happened.

I'm with Sean on this. Sorry to keep going back to this case, but it is the first-hand exeprience I have withg long-term molestation. When charges came up at the school I worked at, parents of the two cases we found out about were FIERCE that their kids not go to court and that no one could know what happened. Like, threatening to sue fierce.

Whatever happened, Michael Jackson is dead. Whether or not there's any afterlife, I just hope he's at peace now.

I don't have Hec's certainty, but I think evidence strongly points to some measure of pedophilia. I also think he was a tortured soul and a musical genius.

This is where I fall, too. I do think there's enough rumor, testimony and evidence to suggest that something criminal may have happened.

I don't think enough to convict, necessarily, at least with what we have to work with. And Hec, I think we can agree that, while the testimony from the book you mention is damning, it is presented without a defensive rebuttal.

I also agree with Hec that bringing up recovered memories only clouds this particular issue. There were no "recovered" memories in Jackson's case.

I didn't mean to upset anyone with my post, and I'm so sorry if I did.

In no way was I upset, I was just responding.

I'm with Sean on this. Sorry to keep going back to this case, but it is the first-hand exeprience I have withg long-term molestation. When charges came up at the school I worked at, parents of the two cases we found out about were FIERCE that their kids not go to court and that no one could know what happened. Like, threatening to sue fierce.

My first-hand experience is with a false accusation. There was one accusation (and then eventually a second one by a girl ten years older) and not dozens. They had too many former students and athletes who wanted to testify as character witnesses to use us all (not a problem with actual pedophiles). He, his wife, and even his children were subjected to odious behaviour by the press and the public. Even though he was found not guilty the damage was borne by that family for years. And in the twenty years since there have been no further allegations nevermind a bunch of them.

Quiche made with mooshed-up edamame?

AWESOME.

I have been waiting to hear the verdict! Glad it turned out well.