I don't have Hec's certainty, but I think evidence strongly points to some measure of pedophilia. I also think he was a tortured soul and a musical genius.

Yeah, this is wriggly can of worms for sure.

When a family takes money rather than taking it to court (and possibly saving other children if the person is a molester), you have to wonder a bit about their intentions.

That goes both ways. $25 million dollars also buys a lot of therapy and keeps your family out of the media circus of a trial against the single biggest celebrity in the world. And I think it's just as human to take $25 million, call it even and let other families look out for themselves, as it is to decide no amount of money is worth your child's suffering and other families need to be protected from this predator.

I can see both sides of that, and feel like a family taking the money tells us nothing about the veracity of their claims.

I have only two or three memories from my young childhood that I trust, because I've heard so many stories that I can recreate them. Some of those memories are almost third-person, because I can see myself instead of just having the memory of seeing the event.

Can you not conceive without losing weight? Don't get me started about how weight gain and loss are not end all be all indicators of health, wellness, and happiness...

Probably, but I don't know. I do know that I currently weigh too much for my knees and back, etc, and I am worried about what the extra strain of pregnancy would do to my body as it currently is. I also wish to be better able to get around, etc before becoming a mother. I really don't feel that my weight is that bad for my height etc, it's just more than my body and disability can handle. I didn't mean to upset anyone with my post, and I'm so sorry if I did.

Anyway, I'm not interested in arguing the facts (such as they are) with you, Trudy. You've already come to a conclusion that I doubt will be swayed.

You're the one using terms like "many many," and dismissing the court appointed psychologist as just an opinion, David. I'm not sure why you're so adamant about the quality of your facts.

The guy I worked with, Trudy, molested dozens (probably more) kids over a 20-year period. These were kids from wealthy families in an elite school. None of them EVER told on him until years later--some of them are just coming forward now. [link]

I can imagine that kids with far less resources and education would be even less likely to speak up.

I am aware that children often don't come forward for years. And that parents allow things to be covered up. And that people of less means are less likely to speak up particularly against an athority figure. The coverups in the Catholic Church have established all those things all too clearly. It is a clear pattern.

It's not a sense of dozens of vague accuasations though, and its not now-Adults insisting every thing was fine -- it's complete radio silence. And its radio silence that ends pretty dramatically with the initial accusations being quickly followed by many others. Even if it took twenty years we'd have heard more by now and we have not.

There could yet be more information. Absolutely. And if there is there will be a landslide of it -- because dozens of victims for decades at a time is what happens. That, actually, is what would sway me because that would be a pedophile. Two victims in thirty years of adulthood is not -- just two victims is fiction.

That goes both ways. $25 million dollars also buys a lot of therapy and keeps your family out of the media circus of a trial against the single biggest celebrity in the world.

To be a bit cynical, they also may worry about not being able to win a case against someone with those financial resources and fame regardless of how good their case may be.

The thing with kids memories is how the charges of abuse at preschools and daycare centers sometimes get out of hand. One kid reports abuse, and every other parent rightfully gets concerned and asks their kid if anything like that ever happened to them, and at least a few of those kids, even if nothing ever happened, will end up saying yes after a few rounds of "Are you sure?" and then the remaining parents get even more worried, because now there are ten kids from their kid's class saying that the teacher abused them, so they go and ask their kids "Are you sure?" a few more times, and it just spirals.

And the problem with sorting this all out is that these kids actually do believe it happened to them. Unless a kid's story includes some obviously false details, there's really no good way to tell the difference between a kid telling what actually happened and a kid telling what he or she thinks happened.

I'm with Sean on this. Sorry to keep going back to this case, but it is the first-hand exeprience I have withg long-term molestation. When charges came up at the school I worked at, parents of the two cases we found out about were FIERCE that their kids not go to court and that no one could know what happened. Like, threatening to sue fierce.

Whatever happened, Michael Jackson is dead. Whether or not there's any afterlife, I just hope he's at peace now.

I don't have Hec's certainty, but I think evidence strongly points to some measure of pedophilia. I also think he was a tortured soul and a musical genius.

This is where I fall, too. I do think there's enough rumor, testimony and evidence to suggest that something criminal may have happened.

I don't think enough to convict, necessarily, at least with what we have to work with. And Hec, I think we can agree that, while the testimony from the book you mention is damning, it is presented without a defensive rebuttal.

I also agree with Hec that bringing up recovered memories only clouds this particular issue. There were no "recovered" memories in Jackson's case.