When I was a kid, and first read Charlie and chocolate factory, Willie wonka scared me. Gene Wilder's version was soft. Johnny Depp 's version was way real . and his version , is where I saw MJ. I don't see MJ much older -- a 10 yr old boy in the same way an alcoholic that became on e at 10 -- isn't a full adult , because in some ways, they never grow up. ( basing this on a friend who did become an alcoholic that early --and despite being a professional -she grew tremendously when she quit).

Does this mean he shouldn't have taken responsibility for his own growth? Of course not. But I'm still ging to place a large amount of responsibility on the parents that let there kids stay with him. He gave off creepy.

his apparent business acumen (at least earlier in his life) deserves consideration right alongside what his mental state may or may not have been.

With disassociation, the person can compartmentalize BIG TIME, and be able to function in business (for example), but not have any ability to have healthy interpersonal relationships.

I don't know if that was the case with MJ, but it wouldn't surprise me.

Jackson's life was sad and tragic in many ways. I don't think we will ever know for sure what happened. The people who were there were Jackson and children, both may have perception of facts different from rational adults. The adults around aren't reliable sources because of the money factor. Some of the accusers were likely looking for cash. We just don't know what really happened. It is also likely that Jackson helped many children. I don't know if he harmed children. I sincerely hope not for the sake of the children that looked up to him.

I remember a Life magazine spread (that tells you how long ago it was) about MJ and Neverland and a bunch of kids who were there for a weekend. There was a picture of MJ leading them around the yard like a conga line, and everyone in the picture is so damned happy. I think kids were the only people he trusted.

What we know factually is that there were two accusations -- one was settled out of court, one was acquitted. There's not "all these children" and "all this weird stuff", there are two incidents that can be analysed.

The other think you can analyse is the hundreds and maybe thousands of children who he spent time with (many of whom are adults by now) who never said 'boo' about anything being wrong or funny or weird.

The one exception I know of is Corey Feldman who said at the time of the second accusation that he wasn't molested, but he wouldn't let his children spend time with and adult the way his parents let him spend time with Jackson. [link] Today he said Michael Jackson was his idol. [link]

Of course it is possible that there were dozens and dozens of children abused and their parents paid off over the years. I don't think there is anything particularly supporting that allegation and I don't think it could have stayed quiet, but its possible.

What's probably not possible is that a pedophile of limitless means molested only two children -- so if we never hear of any others it is incredibly unlikely that these two were true.

Yeesh. I'm looking through Google Books preview of Be Careful Who You Love: Inside the Michael Jackson Case and it's pretty damning.

One excerpt, of a mother whose child spent time with MJ:

"I finally asked him what's going on? and he actually said 'I don't think anymore that Michael Jackson is great and I don't really like him much any longer.' And then [he] told me 'that guy is so weird. We danced together and then he touched my penis. And then he tried to kiss - he called it a "spittle kiss" since it was wet - ...and he didn't like that. 'That wasn't nice Mommy. You don't do that.' He doesn't trust anybody anymore."

There's a lot more like that. Jordie Chandler received a total settlement over $25 million.

Regarding Chandler's attorney, Larry Feldman:

"His wife, Jo Kaplan, ran a public interest firm that defended both victims of abuse and those accused of abuse. It was Kaplan that advised Feldman to get Jordie Chandler to Dr. Richard Gardner, the nation's preeminent expert on false accusations of sexual abuse, immediately. Kaplan explained that if young Chandler could "pass the Gardner smell test" it would be next to impossible for anyone to claim the boy's story was concocted. That's exactly what Larry Feldman did, and Dr. Gardner concluded the Chandler claim was true."

You know it's not just one or two claims. There are many, many, many instances and the details are consistent from story to story. There's plenty of corroboration among staff testimony that MJ did spend that alone time with the kids. You don't pay $25 million to get rid of a nuisance suit.

So were there many many settlements? Or did all those people just shrug and go away?

The guy I worked with, Trudy, molested dozens (probably more) kids over a 20-year period. These were kids from wealthy families in an elite school. None of them EVER told on him until years later--some of them are just coming forward now. [link]

I can imagine that kids with far less resources and education would be even less likely to speak up.

So were there many many settlements?

There was one large public settlement. We don't know what happened privately.

Anyway, I'm not interested in arguing the facts (such as they are) with you, Trudy. You've already come to a conclusion that I doubt will be swayed.

No, depression made me gain weight; happiness was supposed to help me lose weight and get in shape a little bit so that I can finally have a baby dammit.

Can you not conceive without losing weight? Don't get me started about how weight gain and loss are not end all be all indicators of health, wellness, and happiness...

Sorry to be all ranty, but I feel like I keep trying hard to improve myself, and it has been about as effective as banging my head against a wall.

Losing weight is increasingly difficult when medications are involved or as the body ages and changes. I recommend focusing on the healthy behaviors that make you feel good (exercise, yoga, meditation, eating fruits & veggies, drinking water, taking vitamins) and maybe not so much on the numbers on the scale.