I'm not convinced he was mentally competent.

Well, by any way we use the phrase "mentally competent" in our culture he qualified. He had personality disorders, not psychotic ones.

I'm looking for the legal definition of non compos mentis and it seems to mean basically the inability to manage one's own affairs. It's distinct from outright insanity (which legally is concerned with delusions - psychosis and schizophrenia).

Anyway, Michael managed his own affairs. He bought the Beatles back catalog, designed his own estate, recorded music. He wasn't under somebody else's control (unlike Brian Wilson in the 70s).

I don't think its the damage that makes you brilliant, but the brilliance that allows you to survive that much longer in spite of the damage. The drive to create is powerful and the rewards when you do sustaining.

But the rewards can only sustain for so long, as someone like David Foster Wallace so sadly illustrated. What was it that Satchel Paige always said? "Don't look back, somethin' might be gaining on you." But therein lies the rub. So many artists and performers do look back as the source of inspiration for their material. And the demons gain ground.

Don't mind me-- I'm waxing philosophical now because I'm still stoned from the Sudafed. The 12-Hour Sudafed I took at 11. Last night.

Such a lightweight.

Actually, the exposure wasn't proven or he wouldn't have been acquitted. You can THINK he exposed himself to younger children, but you can't assume it as a fact if you're talking about "apart from the abuse allegations".

As I noted upthread, it was widely reported that one child who received a huge cash settlement (in the millions) was able to describe the vitiligo on MJ's penis. So. He saw it.

Court is not the only verifiable source of information. There were multiple corroborating reports indicating that the boy had seen MJ's wang doodle and noted its identifying traits. They bought off the family so MJ would not have to go to court and face this incriminating evidence. Rich people can do that.

They bought off the family so MJ would not have to go to court and face this incriminating evidence. Rich people can do that.

That was the second trial, right? After there had been accusations lobbied at him? And the parents still allowed their kid to be alone with Michael. You want child abuse? At the very least neglect?

First one settled out of court.

“At any time after the commencement of a prosecution for an offense and prior to the sentencing of the defendant, the defendant or the attorney for the Government may file a motion for a hearing to determine the mental competency of the defendant. The court shall grant the motion, or shall order such a hearing on its own motion, if there is reasonable cause to believe that the defendant may presently be suffering from a mental disease or defect rendering him mentally incompetent to the extent that he is unable to understand the nature and consequences of the proceedings against him or to assist properly in his defense.”

The current legal bar for insanity is high.

And oh, Jesus GOD-- you want totally fucked up?

Authorities have arrested and charged a Duke University official who they say offered his adopted 5-year-old son for sex.

The FBI's Washington field office said the school's associate director of the Center for Health Policy, Frank Lombard, was caught in an Internet sting. Authorities said that Lombard tried to persuade a person — whom he did not know was a police officer — to travel to North Carolina to have sex with Lombard's child.

Court documents charge that Lombard identified himself online as "perv dad for fun."

[link]

As I noted upthread, it was widely reported that one child who received a huge cash settlement (in the millions) was able to describe the vitiligo on MJ's penis. So. He saw it.

A child who is not Jordan Chandler? Because in the case of Jordan Chandler it went down like this:

Jackson agreed to a 25-minute strip search, conducted at his ranch. The search was required to see if a description provided by Jordan Chandler was accurate. Doctors concluded that there were some strong similarities, but it was not a definitive match.[88] Jackson made an emotional public statement on the events; he proclaimed his innocence, criticized what he perceived as biased media coverage and told of his strip search.[84]

If its another kid entirely you could have a point there, but I think you're talking about the first accuser. Yes, they settled out of court. His Mother never believed the accusation and his Father appears to have been after cash -- that happens with rich people too.

The current legal bar for insanity is high.

Rightly so, I think. It needs to be a high bar and then you allow the judge wiggle room for extenuating circumstances.

Anyway, Michael managed his own affairs. He bought the Beatles back catalog, designed his own estate, recorded music. He wasn't under somebody else's control (unlike Brian Wilson in the 70s).

By the end, it seemed he wasn't managing his own affairs very well. And there was no point in there where he wasn't advised out the yin yang on every financial and recording decision he made. Even as the Ultimate Decider, those decisions weren't made in a vacuum. His moral decisions may have been another story.

But your point is taken, and his apparent business acumen (at least earlier in his life) deserves consideration right alongside what his mental state may or may not have been.

I'm not convinced he wasn't mentally competent. I'm just not convinced he was. I can barely imagine what his life must have been like. I don't think the abuse he suffered was any different from any other victim who was able to break the cycle. It's all the rest of his life that was far outside the realm of normal. Far enough to make me wonder if he ever knew what right and wrong was. Never having been given a moral framework does not seem outside the realm of possibility with Michael.

And during all this discussion, the Alan Tudyk Child Molester episode of CSI is on Spike right now. An odd bit of synchronicity.

When I was a kid, and first read Charlie and chocolate factory, Willie wonka scared me. Gene Wilder's version was soft. Johnny Depp 's version was way real . and his version , is where I saw MJ. I don't see MJ much older -- a 10 yr old boy in the same way an alcoholic that became on e at 10 -- isn't a full adult , because in some ways, they never grow up. ( basing this on a friend who did become an alcoholic that early --and despite being a professional -she grew tremendously when she quit).

Does this mean he shouldn't have taken responsibility for his own growth? Of course not. But I'm still ging to place a large amount of responsibility on the parents that let there kids stay with him. He gave off creepy.