Willow: Were there dolphins? Tara: Yes. Many dolphins at the pound. Willow: Was there a camel? Tara: There was the front of a camel. A half-camel.

'Selfless'


Buffy 4: Grr. Arrgh.  

This is where we talk about Buffy the Vampire Slayer! No spoilers though?if you post one by accident, an admin will delete it. This thread is NO LONGER NAFDA. Please don't discuss current Angel events here.


Cindy - Sep 12, 2003 10:57:51 am PDT #5537 of 10001
Nobody

Right. The difference between a watcher and a slayer is that a watcher may choose his calling, and a slayer may not.

It is an inherited thing with the watchers, isn't it?


tina f. - Sep 12, 2003 10:59:00 am PDT #5538 of 10001

Giles tells Buffy his story in Season 1 in a "I didn't have a choice either, I know what you're going through" kinda way....so not sure if they really did have a choice.


Katie M - Sep 12, 2003 11:01:53 am PDT #5539 of 10001
I was charmed (albeit somewhat perplexed) by the fannish sensibility of many of the music choices -- it's like the director was trying to vid Canada. --loligo on the Olympic Opening Ceremonies

He didn't have a choice in the sense that, I don't know, the Prince of Wales doesn't have a choice. I very much doubt the CoW would have kidnapped Giles if he'd decided to become a grocer after all. (Though if you want to do a particularly dark CoW, you could probably make an argument for it.)

Of course, young Watcher-get would've been inculcated with a Sense of Duty.

For that matter, I've always thought Buffy had a choice too, albeit a lousy one. She might well have been in danger from the CoW had she walked away, but she always could have.


Cindy - Sep 12, 2003 11:02:21 am PDT #5540 of 10001
Nobody

My total, non-canonical guess is that the watchers have a bit more choice, because in the instance of any given watcher (until season 7's slaughters, anyhow), any given watcher wasn't the one person in all the world. There wasn't the same sort of guilt. Also, Watchers might disown their children who didn't join in the fight, but I would imagine if there was a reluctant slayer, they would kill her to spawn a new one.


JohnSweden - Sep 12, 2003 11:02:49 am PDT #5541 of 10001
I can't even.

Sure, but they're not coerced/guilted into it with no hope of getting out before they die. There is some hope they'll get out alive--not so with the slayer. They're a band of brothers, not one girl in all the world. They're fighting in a cause that is acknowledged to their families, friends and the outside world. They aren't alone.

The hope that they will get out alive is just hope and faint at best. Many many of those guys didn't come back. We all die alone. Most of them were drafted, put through intense training by assholes they hated, then led to their deaths. In her fight, the Slayer faces her odds in smaller numbers and isn't likely to be killed in any other way than face-to-face, on her own terms. She always has a Watcher, and while these people always seem to be stuffy British people, lots of stuffy British people are wonderful, without being blessed with Californication in their lives to make them acceptable to the viewing public. The Slayer's war has to be secret, so that ordinary people can live the ordinary lives she is fighting for. She's like a spy in that way. Live and die anonymously, but for a vital cause, nonetheless.


Cindy - Sep 12, 2003 11:05:08 am PDT #5542 of 10001
Nobody

The hope that they will get out alive is just hope and faint at best. Many many of those guys didn't come back. We all die alone. Most of them were drafted, put through intense training by assholes they hated, then led to their deaths.

But being a slayer is like being the Pope. Being a soldier at least has the glimmer of hope, and an end-date, if you're fortunate enough to make it. This is apples and oranges, John. You're the slayer until you die. There are plenty of retired soldiers. There was never any such thing as a retired slayer, because of the nature of the beast. You stop fighting the forces of darkness, and they gain in numbers and kill you anyhow. That was the only way to get a new slayer.


Nutty - Sep 12, 2003 11:11:16 am PDT #5543 of 10001
"Mister Spock is on his fanny, sir. Reports heavy damage."

Right. If a slayer were a soldier, she'd be able to say, "when X Objective is attained, I'll be done." There's no clear final objective in the slayer battle, unless someone is ambitious enough to take on the First or something.

Also the part where you don't recruit a spy without the spy's consent. It's too intellectually and emotionally demanding a job to be done unconsenting, and anyway, the spy could just embezzle money and flee to Kuala Lumpur. (Sadly, I gather this is not an option for slayers.)

It is an inherited thing with the watchers, isn't it?

Well, I imagine it's inherited the way being a firefighter or a circus clown is inherited. You grow up seeing it done; it's a slightly insular culture; you follow in your family's footsteps.

Or you go to university, start smoking dope, and summon Eyghon. Or what if Giles had run away to become a clown!


Fred Pete - Sep 12, 2003 11:14:20 am PDT #5544 of 10001
Ann, that's a ferret.

That's in the US. Now.

They're fighting in a cause that is acknowledged to their families, friends and the outside world. They aren't alone.

I started to comment on this combination, but I started getting lost in my own words. So I'll summarize -- different times, different cultures and mindsets even during the same time (compare 2003 U.S. with, say, 2003 Iraq, just for simplicity's sake). Different levels of opportunities for women mean the idea of being the Slayer may be more or less appealing to certain types of women. Not sure there really is any universal answer.


Cindy - Sep 12, 2003 11:14:34 am PDT #5545 of 10001
Nobody

Well, I imagine it's inherited the way being a firefighter or a circus clown is inherited. You grow up seeing it done; it's a slightly insular culture; you follow in your family's footsteps.

Giles' line in Restless, "Blood of the lamb and all that," always made me wonder if there was more to it.


JohnSweden - Sep 12, 2003 11:17:14 am PDT #5546 of 10001
I can't even.

But being a slayer is like being the Pope. Being a soldier at least has the glimmer of hope, and an end-date, if you're fortunate enough to make it. This is apples and oranges, John. You're the slayer until you die. There are plenty of retired soldiers. There was never any such thing as a retired slayer, because of the nature of the beast. You stop fighting the forces of darkness, and they gain in numbers and kill you anyhow. That was the only way to get a new slayer.

How is it oranges? They are soldiers, she is a soldier. They are forced to go to war, she is coerced to go to war. They both could flee to Canada, and while we suspect the Council would try to kill her to force the line to continue, they didn't hunt her in LA between Becoming and Anne/DMP, so clearly there is slack. Soldiers who retired from WW2 and other big conflicts were the exceptionally lucky ones. How many units were completely wiped or suffered enormous casualties?

The Slayer gets to be a "hot chick with superpowers" to take the load off. Post-traumatic stress, amputations, Gulf War syndrome -- very very few come back unharmed to a "normal" life even if they live.

Yes, the Slayer gig is an unlucky roll of the dice, but it also means being Chosen to serve in an extraordinary manner. In a way that will help many people's lives. You make a difference in a daily way. Sure, the forces of darkness might keep coming, but like a cop or a firefighter, you can change a life right now.