Willow: It feels like we're going around in circles. Xander: Our circles are going around in circles. We got dizzy circles here.

'Sleeper'


Buffy 4: Grr. Arrgh.  

This is where we talk about Buffy the Vampire Slayer! No spoilers though?if you post one by accident, an admin will delete it. This thread is NO LONGER NAFDA. Please don't discuss current Angel events here.


tina f. - Aug 14, 2003 12:34:44 pm PDT #4562 of 10001

I loved early Willow so much. I started watching the show because I loved her arc in Halloween - the geeky girl forced to be sexy and realizing she *could* be sexy but would rather be smart and funny. It's why I watched a second episode (and Spike).

I grew cold toward her in S5-6. It had nothing to do with the going gay. I just missed old Willow and couldn't get used to the new one. And they pretty much finished up her up with Dark!Willow (which, as a villain, I thought was awesome). And she just felt like unuseful furniture in S7.

Here is a weird thing. I never liked Tara all that much until I read a lot of great Tara-centric fic. Then I re-watched S4-6 and Tara became one of my favorite characters.


helentm - Aug 14, 2003 12:39:53 pm PDT #4563 of 10001
Religion isn't the cause of wars. It's the excuse. - Christopher Brookmyre

I adore Season 1 -4 Willow, I'm just annoyed they set her up to be so evil, then skipped the consequences.


DavidS - Aug 14, 2003 12:41:21 pm PDT #4564 of 10001
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

I'm just annoyed they set her up to be so evil, then skipped the consequences.

I don't get this perspective. She spent all of S7 dealing with the consequences. Considering she's not the title character they still spent a fair amount of time on it, and made it the arc for that character from the first episode to the finale.


erikaj - Aug 14, 2003 12:41:46 pm PDT #4565 of 10001
Always Anti-fascist!

Willow reminds me of myself...just a little, not in a scary Willow Sue way.


Allyson - Aug 14, 2003 12:45:24 pm PDT #4566 of 10001
Wait, is this real-world child support, where the money goes to buy food for the kids, or MRA fantasyland child support where the women just buy Ferraris and cocaine? -Jessica

How anyone can spend three months planning to bring someone back from the dead, and not once consider the possibility that they might not be in a hell dimension...

I always thought this was the beginning of her fast track into evil. This was pure selfishness on her part. I think she grieved for two seconds, and moved right into pure selfishness.


helentm - Aug 14, 2003 1:03:00 pm PDT #4567 of 10001
Religion isn't the cause of wars. It's the excuse. - Christopher Brookmyre

I guess I see what you mean, Hec, about her dealing with it all thorough season 7, but... When I watch her bring Buffy back from the dead, go two-face on Giles and cast that spell on Tara, it has a pretty strong effect on me. I want to see that Willow dealt with. But I guess it's a bit unfair to blame season 7 for that, as that Willow had vanished by the end of season 6.


DavidS - Aug 14, 2003 1:09:07 pm PDT #4568 of 10001
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

I thought it showed a lot of hubris on Willow's part to bring Buffy back, but I didn't think it was fundamentally selfish. Also, regarding the hubris - she did it. She really was that powerful.

We talked about it before, but it's expecting a lot for 19 y.o.'s to have the kind of spiritual acceptance to just let Buffy lie in the ground. Especially when they feared she might be in a hell dimension (which was manifesting when she died, and where Angel had been, and where Buffy had been in "Anne.") There was, up to that point, no glimpse of Heaven of any kind really in the Jossiverse. Also, I think they felt like the world needed Buffy - it existed because she'd saved it several times over.

Also, Willow did not act alone in resurrecting Buffy. Of all Wilow's mistakes and sins, resurrecting Buffy seems a lot more forgiveable than some of them.


§ ita § - Aug 14, 2003 1:12:14 pm PDT #4569 of 10001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Also, regarding the hubris - she did it. She really was that powerful.

I don't think the hubris was about whether or not she could, but that she should, and that she knew what impact it would have on the world.

She had no idea.


Glamcookie - Aug 14, 2003 1:12:36 pm PDT #4570 of 10001
I know my own heart and understand my fellow man. But I am made unlike anyone I have ever met. I dare to say I am like no one in the whole world. - Anne Lister

When I watch her bring Buffy back from the dead

I don't see how this was bad of Willow. She thought she was doing the right thing - and so did Xander, Anya, and Tara. If you think Willow was wrong in doing this, then she shares the blame with the others.

X-posty :)


erikaj - Aug 14, 2003 1:13:00 pm PDT #4571 of 10001
Always Anti-fascist!

What Hec Said. If I were Willow, I'dve done the same thing. Not that it still wouldn't be wrong, but I would.