Do you argue with people because they're wrong, or because you enjoy arguing? I mean, if I didn't enjoy arguing, I wouldn't do it. People are just as frustrating when they're wrong whether I say anything about it or not--I just get more out of it if I engage in a discussion.

Do you argue with people because they're wrong, or because you enjoy arguing?

I usually only bother arguing when I'm trying to understand or articulate my own position. Putting things into words is a thought process for me taking inchoate ideas and finding the coherence or logic or lack therein.

So, arguing about "gypped" wasn't about winning that argument, but trying to figure out why I think that way and whether it's defensible.

But sometimes I'll argue online because I have a better grasp of the facts on some issue, or it's an area of expertise and I can add context. If it has something to do with the history of pop music in the 20th century, or the development of the English sonnet or baseball I can speak with some authority on it.

Jilli, how do you feel about these?

So, arguing about "gypped" wasn't about winning that argument

For me arguing about gypped was because I was offended and wanted to make that clear. I didn't think it was something to win. In fact, I didn't really think of it as an argument, not like Steph was outlining above.

But I don't usually take an argumentative position unless I already understand how I feel. If I don't know how I feel, I take an inquisitive position.

No comment on organization . Or wrong on the Internet, I am a disengage-ish type.

Had catastrophic luggage failure, but Kat saved the day with a pink loaner. Bye Bye old overnight bag. Served 20 ish years. And now I don't feel guilty about wanting a new one. Now I need it!

Lovely visit, short of photo proof. Kids=awesome. Miss people already.

Autocorrect=weird.

Plane here. Bye!!

Jilli, how do you feel about these?

That I have Draculaura and Frankie Stein, and if I had more disposable income I'd have a LOT of the accessories. I love them to bits. Still haven't watched the webshow, but love the dolls.

Also, one of the munchkins that follows me on Twitter is convinced that I'm Draculaura's auntie, which fills me with glee.

I love when things make me think of you, Jilli, and I'm not actually off base. It makes it feel like the world is making a little bit more sense. Plus? The things are usually very pretty.

Yeah, I'm pretty much in the "arguing with idiots is a waste of time" group.

I just don't want the idiots to be the only influence on the fence-sitters or the ignorant. I'll dive into arguments on evo psych that are sexist just to bazooka holes in the theories, or the girls aren't musicians bullshit, and also anti-vaxx stuff. Things that matter to me, personally, I guess.

I think I can argue/persuade pretty well, though. Maybe not the idiots, but the fence sitters.

I think I can argue/persuade pretty well, though. Maybe not the idiots, but the fence sitters.

You can't actually win an argument on the internet. I know this. I read it somewhere.

Yay! Work day is done, and usefully so. Now I have to spend the weekend improving my game.

Man, The Rock is more watchable than Knight and Day. I thought I hated Nic Cage more than Tom Cruise. I guess I live and learn.

Awww, I'm very touched, ita.

I am semi-convinced that the people behind Monster High (and especially Draculaura) are studying me as market research. I mean, c'mon, a vampire girl who wears black and pink? With a parasol?

On Halloween, one of the kidlings that came to our door was dressed as Draculaura. I complimented her on her costume, and she looked a little stunned. "YOU know who Draculaura is?" she asked. "Yes. I have one of the dolls!" I told her. She grinned, and I gave her extra candy.

For me arguing about gypped was because I was offended and wanted to make that clear.

Clarity achieved.

I will say on that subject that when I've returned to that discussion in my mind, it's not the logical coherence of either position that I'm pushing about but what I value. Reflexive feelings about resisting limits on speech vs. potential offense modulate more towards "what is the real limit on speech here instead of potential" vs. actual offense.

And that's probably a more common use of argument to me. Articulating values, which can be emotional and unexamined, is where I'm getting something out of an argument.