they were all cartoonish and two-dimensional, and they all bored me.

Aw, not even Jensen with his pansies t-shirts?

If the warrior woman were fully dressed, wearing combat boots, no jewelry or makeup, with her hair cut short, and she fought the main guy and won and then walked away without fucking him? That would be realistic, and not one man would be interested.

Except for the hair, isn't that pretty much River Tam? Okay, she fought the Reavers instead of the main guy...

Also, show me ANY WOMAN in a movie who has short hair and wears combat boots and no (obvious) makeup (since we know the guys are wearing makeup, too). The issue of what kinds of men and women get portrayed in movies is much larger than warriors/whores/damsels. Given those three options? I'll take the warriors, thanks.

I think she slept with him, or intended to, to get him to let his guard down. Then they found the spark. Nothing wrong with either thing for me.

Same here. Plus, they were more or less equals in combat, in status, in gun handling. I like the equals thing. It's true that romances get shoehorned into movies; I'd personally rather see a romance of relative equals than a romance of damsel and white knight.

Oh, and, let's talk about all those ass-kicking guys in movies. You know, like, superheroes and shit? How realistic is it that all those guys can kick ass? I'm thinking... NSM. So, given that Hollywood is going to continue to make action movies with guys who kick ass, and continue to have hetero love interests for those guys, I would prefer that those girls also kick ass in some fashion. Although I sure would love to see a movie about a gay superhero who goes home to his librarian partner, who helps save the day with his mad research skills.

Also, show me ANY WOMAN in a movie who has short hair and wears combat boots and no (obvious) makeup (since we know the guys are wearing makeup, too).

Vasquez in Aliens.

I am guessing being female, like, oh half of the population. It's really not a lot to ask that females exist in entertainment. Or have actual roles and lives and ... seriously?

I was going to let this go because it looked like it had moved on, but really? I make one flippant, generalized remark about summertime blow-em-up popcorn movies where a woman often gets shoehorned in because some studio flack thinks there needs to be hetero sex appeal, and suddenly I'm a gender traitor?

Point: I haven't seen Cowboys and Aliens. I have no knowledge of the comics. I don't know if Olivia Wilde turns in a nuanced, meaningful, female-empowering performance or not. I'm going off the trailers, and they look like her character is there for standard encouragement-spouting etc. I'm probably wrong. I'll know when I see it.

But I am highly surprised that this forum is taking my one remark about watching fluff movies for the hot guys as some sort of call for removing women from media because I'm too shallow to appreciate anything but the HoYay.

I honestly expect better from this place.

(In response to Hec) Well, yeah, and GI Jane. That's two. More? My point is that the vast majority of women in movies will be by default 1) skinny 2) long-haired 3) adhering to western gender appearance norms WRT clothing. So it's not fair to single out the asskicking chicks for looking that way, although I do believe it's harder to kick ass in heels.

More?

Carrie Moss in the Matrix.

Carrie Moss in the Matrix.

HEC. I am not just talking about short hair. I know it's an obsession of yours, but for most of those movies Carrie Ann Moss is in skintight pleather.

but for most of those movies Carrie Ann Moss is in skintight pleather.

I'm pretty sure she also has combat boots and is a female action hero with agency.

Sorry, I'm not trying to derail the discussion.

eta: FWIW, I thought she was sexy because she was BADASS and the skintight pleather wasn't any more evident on her than on Keeanu. That is, she wasn't sexualized in a manner that played on the usual feminine tropes.

I am guessing being female, like, oh half of the population. It's really not a lot to ask that females exist in entertainment. Or have actual roles and lives and ... seriously?

I was going to let this go because it looked like it had moved on, but really? I make one flippant, generalized remark about summertime blow-em-up popcorn movies where a woman often gets shoehorned in because some studio flack thinks there needs to be hetero sex appeal, and suddenly I'm a gender traitor?

Beyond anything, I think it's the entire entertainment field that is the "traitor" (and I don't want to use that word, honestly) to women. It's somehow a big deal when women are in a movie? We're half of the damned population. Being represented in media should not be an issue, to me, it should just happen in so many nuances.

While I wasn't honestly thrilled with your comment, my response was meant to be pointed more towards the idea that women are a novel and always sexualized thing in mainstream media.

eta: formatting

Hec, I love Trinity. I dressed as her for Halloween. TWICE. My point was that female movie stars are preselected from a narrow range of characteristics (still skinny and pretty!). Also, I would argue that Trinity lost agency over the course of the trilogy and furthermore her love for Neo was part of what anointed him as the One (per the Oracle). Key point - Trinity, Vazquez, GI Jane are not the norm in action films (2/3 of those are set in the future, which I think is also a factor). OMG, getting so muddled with so many points.

Connie, I thought we were having an intelligent, passionate conversation about media. I thought that's a part of what we do here. None of us called you a "gender traitor" or "hater of women." I think those are very extreme interpretations of remarks made.

my one remark about watching fluff movies for the hot guys

You know, if you'd clarified with that? I think I would have gone, "oh, okay." I truly did not get that from what you originally said, or your persuant clarifications. Judging from Consuela, ita, and Cass' comments, they interpreted things in a similar fashion to myself.

"What's that woman doing? Get her out of here" != "I watch fluff movies for the hot guys" in my brainpan. Regardless of how I interpreted your remarks, my intent was to disagree, not attack.

I mean, I think we can all agree that it would be nice to have a wide variety of female characters in media representing a diversity of age, size, femme/butch continuum, sexuality, and ability to kick ass who are well-written and three-dimensional. Yes?

With that, I am stepping away and going to bed.