I am guessing being female, like, oh half of the population. It's really not a lot to ask that females exist in entertainment. Or have actual roles and lives and ... seriously?

I was going to let this go because it looked like it had moved on, but really? I make one flippant, generalized remark about summertime blow-em-up popcorn movies where a woman often gets shoehorned in because some studio flack thinks there needs to be hetero sex appeal, and suddenly I'm a gender traitor?

Beyond anything, I think it's the entire entertainment field that is the "traitor" (and I don't want to use that word, honestly) to women. It's somehow a big deal when women are in a movie? We're half of the damned population. Being represented in media should not be an issue, to me, it should just happen in so many nuances.

While I wasn't honestly thrilled with your comment, my response was meant to be pointed more towards the idea that women are a novel and always sexualized thing in mainstream media.

eta: formatting

Hec, I love Trinity. I dressed as her for Halloween. TWICE. My point was that female movie stars are preselected from a narrow range of characteristics (still skinny and pretty!). Also, I would argue that Trinity lost agency over the course of the trilogy and furthermore her love for Neo was part of what anointed him as the One (per the Oracle). Key point - Trinity, Vazquez, GI Jane are not the norm in action films (2/3 of those are set in the future, which I think is also a factor). OMG, getting so muddled with so many points.

Connie, I thought we were having an intelligent, passionate conversation about media. I thought that's a part of what we do here. None of us called you a "gender traitor" or "hater of women." I think those are very extreme interpretations of remarks made.

my one remark about watching fluff movies for the hot guys

You know, if you'd clarified with that? I think I would have gone, "oh, okay." I truly did not get that from what you originally said, or your persuant clarifications. Judging from Consuela, ita, and Cass' comments, they interpreted things in a similar fashion to myself.

"What's that woman doing? Get her out of here" != "I watch fluff movies for the hot guys" in my brainpan. Regardless of how I interpreted your remarks, my intent was to disagree, not attack.

I mean, I think we can all agree that it would be nice to have a wide variety of female characters in media representing a diversity of age, size, femme/butch continuum, sexuality, and ability to kick ass who are well-written and three-dimensional. Yes?

With that, I am stepping away and going to bed.

I really need to get out of the habit of reading through Google Reader first thing in the AM.

Hah--for me this has turned into a bad habit of getting up in the morning, brushing my teeth, and then getting back into bed and reading the internet for half an hour or more.

For me, too, meara. iPhone makes it way too easy.

OMG, getting so muddled with so many points.

My only point is that the Short Haired Non-Sexualized Female Soldier is a trope as well. It's not as common, but it's fairly consistent and you can see it in: Vasquez, Trinity, Starbuck on BSG, Lady Jaye (GI Joe), Carter on Stargate, Carmen Ibanez (in the original book of Starship Troopers) et al.

Can't sleep. Pain and spinny brain.

My only point is that the Short Haired Non-Sexualized Female Soldier is a trope as well.

I actually agree with this completely. Ass kicking chicks are more likely to have short hair and be nominally butch (but almost always still hetero!) as portrayed in popular media than other chicks in popular media. If you look back at my post, I referenced ANY MOVIE, and not just action movies. (I also should note that I have not seen any of the Alien movies. Yes, I know. Yes, I should get right on that. I'd like to point out that I was only 15 when Alien 3 came out, and my parents were very strict about R movies. It just hasn't been a priority.)

Also, show me ANY WOMAN in a movie who has short hair and wears combat boots and no (obvious) makeup (since we know the guys are wearing makeup, too)

Tank Girl. Made of awesome. Though also a future heroine.

Advice needed:

Let me preface this: I am not an educator, I do not work with kids of any age (beyond the two or three times a year I get to use them as slave labour when they have to get their community service in and it's my duty to bark orders at them and make sure they're constantly busy). I don't have the education or personal experience for dealing with the quirks of any age group. Also, I hate kids of any age group.

So, I'm working with a bunch of 14-year-olds doing environmental work. One of the kids is a severely overweight girl whose mother is deaf. Girl is tremendously needy, to the point that I had begun to think that she was, for lack of a better word in my vocabulary, mentally retarded. I've somewhat amended that to so desperately in need of attention that she'd offer up herself as a target for bullies (to the point where even I am tempted). Her own conversation starters to a group of people involve how she still smelled bad after a shower, how her pants are falling down, but she doesn't have belt loops. She asks the same question over and over, and when I tried to logically talk her through how to figure out the problem for herself (which is the bucket that isn't broken?) she comes to me and the other educator individually and asks if we're mad at her, which of course we say no to (and I don't know why the other educator would have gotten the question, I was the one who was impatient and short-tempered).

And now the other girls are making fun of her, and I feel partially to blame for that. (One of the quirks of the girl in question is to call out my name, point out that I am there saying my name, and generally behave like JD #1 on Scrubs with his "hey numba 2!" I got this greeting the other morning, said good morning to the wrong girl, who then asked me if she sounded like the other girl. Later I heard that they'd begun mimicking the other girl).

I've got another two weeks with these kids. How do I not coddle her without making her feel badly? How do I set a better example for the other girls without being completely false?

My only point is that the Short Haired Non-Sexualized Female Soldier is a trope as well. It's not as common, but it's fairly consistent and you can see it in: Vasquez, Trinity, Starbuck on BSG, Lady Jaye (GI Joe), Carter on Stargate, Carmen Ibanez (in the original book of Starship Troopers) et al.

I think Trinity and Starbuck were sexualized for at least part of their respective roles. Trinity in the shiny catsuit and Starbuck in at least one "I'm a hot babe in a dress" scene. Carter, too, for that matter, what with that wet bra scene in SG:A. Granted, the last was in the head of a man known for inappropriately sexualizing Carter, but it's not like the producers said, "Gee, this is inappropriate for the character so we need keep it off screen."

I think that Starbuck can be and should be allowed to be a hot babe in a dress as well as a kick-ass pilot and cardsharp. But I also think this undercuts the idea of her being part of a non-sexualized warrior woman trope.

In semi-related news, did y'all know that Netflix has Xena available for streaming? I think that's how I'll be spending my morning.

New Starbuck was highly sexed and sexual. Maybe because she was the sexual aggressor she wasn't considered sexualized?