(In response to Hec) Well, yeah, and GI Jane. That's two. More? My point is that the vast majority of women in movies will be by default 1) skinny 2) long-haired 3) adhering to western gender appearance norms WRT clothing. So it's not fair to single out the asskicking chicks for looking that way, although I do believe it's harder to kick ass in heels.

More?

Carrie Moss in the Matrix.

Carrie Moss in the Matrix.

HEC. I am not just talking about short hair. I know it's an obsession of yours, but for most of those movies Carrie Ann Moss is in skintight pleather.

but for most of those movies Carrie Ann Moss is in skintight pleather.

I'm pretty sure she also has combat boots and is a female action hero with agency.

Sorry, I'm not trying to derail the discussion.

eta: FWIW, I thought she was sexy because she was BADASS and the skintight pleather wasn't any more evident on her than on Keeanu. That is, she wasn't sexualized in a manner that played on the usual feminine tropes.

I am guessing being female, like, oh half of the population. It's really not a lot to ask that females exist in entertainment. Or have actual roles and lives and ... seriously?

I was going to let this go because it looked like it had moved on, but really? I make one flippant, generalized remark about summertime blow-em-up popcorn movies where a woman often gets shoehorned in because some studio flack thinks there needs to be hetero sex appeal, and suddenly I'm a gender traitor?

Beyond anything, I think it's the entire entertainment field that is the "traitor" (and I don't want to use that word, honestly) to women. It's somehow a big deal when women are in a movie? We're half of the damned population. Being represented in media should not be an issue, to me, it should just happen in so many nuances.

While I wasn't honestly thrilled with your comment, my response was meant to be pointed more towards the idea that women are a novel and always sexualized thing in mainstream media.

eta: formatting

Hec, I love Trinity. I dressed as her for Halloween. TWICE. My point was that female movie stars are preselected from a narrow range of characteristics (still skinny and pretty!). Also, I would argue that Trinity lost agency over the course of the trilogy and furthermore her love for Neo was part of what anointed him as the One (per the Oracle). Key point - Trinity, Vazquez, GI Jane are not the norm in action films (2/3 of those are set in the future, which I think is also a factor). OMG, getting so muddled with so many points.

Connie, I thought we were having an intelligent, passionate conversation about media. I thought that's a part of what we do here. None of us called you a "gender traitor" or "hater of women." I think those are very extreme interpretations of remarks made.

my one remark about watching fluff movies for the hot guys

You know, if you'd clarified with that? I think I would have gone, "oh, okay." I truly did not get that from what you originally said, or your persuant clarifications. Judging from Consuela, ita, and Cass' comments, they interpreted things in a similar fashion to myself.

"What's that woman doing? Get her out of here" != "I watch fluff movies for the hot guys" in my brainpan. Regardless of how I interpreted your remarks, my intent was to disagree, not attack.

I mean, I think we can all agree that it would be nice to have a wide variety of female characters in media representing a diversity of age, size, femme/butch continuum, sexuality, and ability to kick ass who are well-written and three-dimensional. Yes?

With that, I am stepping away and going to bed.

I really need to get out of the habit of reading through Google Reader first thing in the AM.

Hah--for me this has turned into a bad habit of getting up in the morning, brushing my teeth, and then getting back into bed and reading the internet for half an hour or more.

For me, too, meara. iPhone makes it way too easy.

OMG, getting so muddled with so many points.

My only point is that the Short Haired Non-Sexualized Female Soldier is a trope as well. It's not as common, but it's fairly consistent and you can see it in: Vasquez, Trinity, Starbuck on BSG, Lady Jaye (GI Joe), Carter on Stargate, Carmen Ibanez (in the original book of Starship Troopers) et al.

Can't sleep. Pain and spinny brain.

My only point is that the Short Haired Non-Sexualized Female Soldier is a trope as well.

I actually agree with this completely. Ass kicking chicks are more likely to have short hair and be nominally butch (but almost always still hetero!) as portrayed in popular media than other chicks in popular media. If you look back at my post, I referenced ANY MOVIE, and not just action movies. (I also should note that I have not seen any of the Alien movies. Yes, I know. Yes, I should get right on that. I'd like to point out that I was only 15 when Alien 3 came out, and my parents were very strict about R movies. It just hasn't been a priority.)