Wow, that's harsh. I don't even like Olivia Wilde and I think she had a perfectly reasonable place in the movie. Regardless of her gender.

I also didn't say it was about her and I haven't seen the movie yet, it was a general statement of my wanting to see guys interacting without what feels like "Oh, we ought to put a chick in this, or women won't watch it."

There are women in stories and life, though. It's hardly weird for it not to be a sausagefest. My point was that even as I was prejudiced to dislike her, she had an integral part in the story and I couldn't be mad at her. You seem to dislike her because she's got tits. She doesn't take away that much screen time from the penises--never fear.

it was a general statement of my wanting to see guys interacting without what feels like "Oh, we ought to put a chick in this, or women won't watch it."

You know what I'd like to see, instead of banning women from films because they're such a distraction?

Maybe she'll talk to another named female character about something other than men.

Ah, Gud beat me to it. How about they write women better? That would be my wish.

it was a general statement of my wanting to see guys interacting without what feels like "Oh, we ought to put a chick in this, or women won't watch it."

Because it's perfectly acceptable for the world not to have women in it?

I can appreciate the homoerotic snark factor without reacting like that. You sound like the guys quoted in the letters columns of 1920s/1930s sci-fi magazines: Oh Noes, no women, they'll taint our manly stories with romance!

As if that's the only function a woman can have in a story.

My reaction to that concept is unprintable and does not meet the civility standards of this board.

it was a general statement of my wanting to see guys interacting without what feels like "Oh, we ought to put a chick in this, or women won't watch it."

Because it's perfectly acceptable for the world not to have women in it?

Honestly, my reaction to Batman Begins was that Rachel was an utterly useless character, and not because of any HoYay factor. t edit And not because any "romance" (such as it was) between her and Bruce "messed up" the "manliness" of the movie. I just felt that, as a character, she brought nothing to the movie, and I think it would have been better without her.

Or, as smonster said, write a better damn character, one that actually brings something to the movie.

(I have no opinion on the James Bond/Indiana Jones cowboy movie, as I haven't seen it.)

Honestly, my reaction to Batman Begins was that Rachel was an utterly useless character, and not because of any HoYay factor. As a character, she brought nothing to the movie, and I think it would have been better without her.

But your reaction to that isn't "Don't put any women in the movie because they will distract from the HoYay," it's "Write a better character because women aren't useless in real life and shouldn't be in the movies, either."

Good lord, people, when I did I become a hater of women to this degree? Doesn't the fact that that test exists indicate that female characters get put into movies for insufficient reasons?

To whom should I submit my posts for proper sociological/political vetting in the future? Because heaven forbid I should post something that expresses insufficient appreciation for appearances of women in media.

And if you think I seriously hate seeing women in movies because they block my view of the men, I can only assume I've been seriously misinterpreted over the years.

But your reaction to that isn't "Don't put any women in the movie because they will distract from the HoYay," it's "Write a better character because women aren't useless in real life and shouldn't be in the movies, either."

True, although I wouldn't have had a problem with the character being entirely absent, either, because she really felt tacked on to make sure there was a woman in it. That's very specific to that story, though, and what it reflects of Batman's very narrow vision of his mission (i.e., no room for the wimmins). So I guess I'm looking at it through the specific story.

In general, though, yeah -- better written women characters, who have a purpose other than being a love interest, are sorely lacking in movies. It's sad when Thor is the only recent movie I've seen that passes (and just barely) the Bechdel test.

Doesn't the fact that that test exists indicate that female characters get put into movies for insufficient reasons?

Do you have any idea why she was put into the movie? Or do you just figure she'll mess shit up on principle? Because that's sure what it sounds like. And Consuela is relatively recently out of a fandom that had pre-appearance petitions to not include women in their sausagefest on what seemed a very similar principle, so I totally see her point.

Hoping she's well written is one thing. Wanting her gone is...weird.

And if you think I seriously hate seeing women in movies because they block my view of the men, I can only assume I've been seriously misinterpreted over the years.

The discussion thus far reads to me like it's about your one specific statement, not about "over the years."