But she was naked! And all... articulate!

Mal ,'Our Mrs. Reynolds'


Natter 68: Bork Bork Bork  

Off-topic discussion. Wanna talk about corsets, duct tape, or physics? This is the place. Detailed discussion of any current-season TV must be whitefonted.


§ ita § - Jul 12, 2011 7:08:28 am PDT #16247 of 30001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

At least Willow raping Tara got enough handling by the characters, I felt. Tara acknowledged it, reacted, and blamed Willow. Forgave her eventually, but reacted.

Still, yeah, I never digested Seeing Red either. I'm a canonista with the best of them, but I do replace that with an attempted vamping in my head canon.


JZ - Jul 12, 2011 7:18:48 am PDT #16248 of 30001
See? I gave everybody here an opportunity to tell me what a bad person I am and nobody did, because I fuckin' rule.

Sophia, that's exactly what I flashed to the instant ita said that. And I remember wanting the moratorium way back then--I'm pretty sure I had a long discussion with Hec over it. In general I'm all for total artistic freedom and leaving everything in the universe totally up for grabs at the artist's discretion, but rape is just... it's not like anything else. It's a big toxic mess, sex and not sex and a shitty, selfish crime just like any other and completely unlike any other, and it's so fraught with ugly meanings and implications that it's just unusable as metaphor. It's radioactive; it mutates the entire story and all the characters and the creators and the consumers of whatever art attempted to use it to suggest anything but itself, and it has a half-life of approximately forever.


sumi - Jul 12, 2011 7:26:44 am PDT #16249 of 30001
Art Crawl!!!

16 pound baby born in Texas.


msbelle - Jul 12, 2011 7:29:07 am PDT #16250 of 30001
I remember the crazy days. 500 posts an hour. Nubmer! Natgbsb

I am posting from the new part-time job. day 2, things seem not crazy. very organized, clear ideas of what they want me to do, very good about making sure they are available but also that I take breaks and get down time. YAY!


msbelle - Jul 12, 2011 7:30:29 am PDT #16251 of 30001
I remember the crazy days. 500 posts an hour. Nubmer! Natgbsb

now hivemind - design types

what font and or colors would you use on a company brochure? Things that are good right now for a upscale home/yard establishment.


Burrell - Jul 12, 2011 7:34:18 am PDT #16252 of 30001
Why did Darth Vader cross the road? To get to the Dark Side!

Thanks for the validation, Matt. I do think I could do a better job of explaining religion to my kids, which I see as a somewhat separate discussion from God.

And in odd segues, that Princess Leia crochet wig rocks my world. I love it!

but rape is just... it's not like anything else.

I'd quibble with that, I think there's also way too many depictions of torture and other forms of dehumanizing ultraviolence depicted in art these days, but then again I think I'm a cultural outlier with regards to my violence tolerance. I really am stupidly squeamish about watching violence.

That said, I'm reading Stiff right now and it's reminding me that dehumanizing ultraviolence has been part of entertaining the masses for centuries. At least nowadays it mostly just happens in fiction, we aren't gibbeting criminals or drawing and quartering people any more.


§ ita § - Jul 12, 2011 7:34:44 am PDT #16253 of 30001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I just posted a picture of Jilli in an argument. Had to defend girliness. For some reason, it was being equated with all sorts of negativity, and taking pains with your appearance was equated with shallowness. Why is making the canvas yourself shallower than using a piece of fabric to paint on? It doesn't inherently mean you think you're better than anyone else. Good god.

There is nothing wrong with pink and glitter and lace and sequins. And nothing incompatible with mechanics and computers and guns and fighting and being generally, you know, sensible.

I think that if people handled rape in fiction like...RAPE, I wouldn't mind. Admit that wielded sex pollen is roofies is rape. Admit that men can be raped. Admit that prison rape isn't part of a jail sentence. Admit that it takes recovering from. Admit that no means no. Then I'd be okay. But that so rarely seems to happen.


Sophia Brooks - Jul 12, 2011 7:35:14 am PDT #16254 of 30001
Cats to become a rabbit should gather immediately now here

it's just unusable as metaphor. It's radioactive; it mutates the entire story and all the characters and the creators and the consumers of whatever art attempted to use it to suggest anything but itself, and it has a half-life of approximately forever.

JZ- that is a great way to put it. It is just poison. And on Buffy the Willow/Tara stuff was handled so well, possibly because it was not a metaphor of any kind.


Kat - Jul 12, 2011 7:48:48 am PDT #16255 of 30001
"I keep to a strict diet of ill-advised enthusiasm and heartfelt regret." Leigh Bardugo

Burrell, are you enjoying Stiff ?

I think my problem is I want Noah to go to Catholic school but not have any of the forced BS of non-actual-doctrine dogma that the Catholics force on people.

I don't care about whether or not he is an atheist. He'll believe what he believes. But I DO care that he knows the biblical stories, not necessarily that he believes them.


§ ita § - Jul 12, 2011 7:48:52 am PDT #16256 of 30001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Burrell, I think most violence on TV is less insidious than rape is, so I don't mind it as much. But when you get to torture or abuse, I also get tetchy. Those are a whole different kettle of fish.