It just takes one dominant retailer (like Wal-Mart) to insist on "clean" content and then suddenly Are You There God, It's Me Margaret? is de facto banned.

As it is, with Wal-Mart being the single largest book retailer right now, it's hard for some publishers to get their books carried, simply because of the covers, let alone the content.

Freakin' Wal-Mart.

Tep, I see where you're coming from, but at the same time, I'm always going to fall on the side that a writer can't allow the outside world and its potential concerns to intrude when writing. However, once that's said and done, I see no reason a writer couldn't take a step back, look at their work and say, "Hmm... there are some potentially disturbing things here, if people ask, I'm going to be open about it." Of course, that depends upon how much of the plot hinges on the disturbing material or event.

It's a catch-22 and as individual as every story.

As it is, with Wal-Mart being the single largest book retailer right now, it's hard for some publishers to get their books carried, simply because of the covers, let alone the content.

I shouldn't be surprised that Wal-Mart is the biggest book retailer. But it seems very sad. I don't know about most Wall-Marts but all the ones around me have a book selection that is about the same or less than a B&N's bargain books section.

Tep, I see where you're coming from, but at the same time, I'm always going to fall on the side that a writer can't allow the outside world and its potential concerns to intrude when writing.

I don't think that any writer should change the content of their story, just because they fear triggering someone. Maybe I wasn't clear about that. Writers can write rapefic involving underage oompa-loompas (see how I worked in orange?), and that's cool.

But putting a warning about specific content doesn't change that content; it just lets people know that they might not want to read it.

Do you think that putting a warning on fanfic (not books) about something like rape is compromising the writer's artistic integrity? Am I misunderstanding you?

I'm always going to fall on the side that a writer can't allow the outside world and its potential concerns to intrude when writing.

I don't think anyone is arguing otherwise. Warnings aren't about the content of the story, they're about the attached metadata once it's published.

To me, the big difference between "fic" and "books" here is that nobody walks into a Barnes & Noble with the expectation that they're entering a safe community space. Whereas fandom frequently does serve that function, and warnings can be a way of maintaining that.

(I also think there's something to be said for respecting the wishes of people who have been through in real life the things that you (generic you) are fictionalizing. If you get an email about your orangefic saying "Hey, I'm an orange survivor and this story was triggering for me - would you mind adding a warning to the header?" and your response is "Oh, get over it and stop whining" well maybe you're not exactly the best person to be writing about oranges in the first place, you know?)

OK, I am not much of a fic reader, but this discussion is making me wonder - how do people find stories they want to read if there aren't tags giving some clue as to what happens in them?

OK, I am not much of a fic reader, but this discussion is making me wonder - how do people find stories they want to read if there aren't tags giving some clue as to what happens in them?

there are tags, but some authors don't like to be specific because they don't want to give away a plot point.

Do you think that putting a warning on fanfic (not books) about something like rape is compromising the writer's artistic integrity?

Oh hell no. When I wrote fanfic, I always put in warnings, both aping the movie warning system and adding additional specific warning about content. Of course, it's been so long since I read any fanfic, I don't know how the communities have evolved. It would seem that there's a lot more fic out there in need of warning than maybe there used to be.

To me, the big difference between "fic" and "books" here is that nobody walks into a Barnes & Noble with the expectation that they're entering a safe community space. Whereas fandom frequently does serve that function, and warnings can be a way of maintaining that.

I think that's a really good way of putting it, Jessica.

For stories posted on the internet, there is no reason an author can't put warnings in whitefont, in a footnote, or in a separate entry on LJ. The writer can also establish a general warnings policy and link to that.

The amount of "but I don't wanna!" in the fact of people's very real pain has depressed the hell out of me. And continues to do so.

Do you think that putting a warning on fanfic (not books) about something like rape is compromising the writer's artistic integrity?

Oh hell no.

Then I admit I'm confused about your previous comment. I was never talking about content in fic.

The amount of "but I don't wanna!" in the fact of people's very real pain has depressed the hell out of me. And continues to do so.

I've seen some I don't wanna!, but mostly from established tools. What I've seen mostly, and granted, this is mainly where/what meta I read, is the desire to look at the potential unintended consequences surrounding some of the suggested implimentations.

I warn if the content seems to demand it. In communities, in my personal space, wherever. I'm very, however, wary of the expectation that warnings be considered an obligation in all spaces, and uncomfortable with the notion that doing so is cost-free or low cost to the author, and that shaming people who do not hold the same beliefs is acceptable. I know too many people with triggers related to behavior/expression control from emotional or physical abuse to *EVER* think that.