Oh, look at the pretties!

Kaylee ,'Shindig'


Spike's Bitches 44: It's about the rules having changed.  

[NAFDA] Spike-centric discussion. Lusty, lewd (only occasionally crude), risqué (and frisqué), bawdy (Oh, lawdy!), flirty ('cuz we're purty), raunchy talk inside. Caveat lector.


Fay - Jun 29, 2009 7:00:31 am PDT #14476 of 30000
"Fuck Western ideologically-motivated gender identification!" Sulu gasped, and came.

I've not read much of it at all, myself. What very little I read made me think: "Huh...I ought to think about including warnings for triggery scenes in the future."


Dana - Jun 29, 2009 7:04:26 am PDT #14477 of 30000
I haven't trusted science since I saw the film "Flubber."

I can't stop reading stuff about the fanfic warnings kerfailfuffle. It's mesmerizing.

Oh, my god, stop reading. People have failed so hard.


Steph L. - Jun 29, 2009 7:07:11 am PDT #14478 of 30000
this mess was yours / now your mess is mine

oh, dear. do I want to know?

Some authors don't post warnings even if their fic includes rape/child abuse/torture, etc. One big reason they cite is that such warnings "spoil" the fic. And they think that their artistic integrity is paramount over rape survivors' actual trauma.

Rape survivors are saying, wow, do you know that if a fic doesn't have a warning, I assume there's nothing to be wary of, and then when I click through to your rapefic, it triggers me?

Anti-warning people are saying, stop whining, rape survivors, and if you click something without a warning, it's your own fault (like, say, if you wore a short skirt and got raped, it's your own fault). Also suggesting that maybe rape survivors need therapy to get over their issues.

There's also a very big misunderstanding wherein "trigger" is being equated with "stuff that I personally don't like." And rape survivors are saying, do you even KNOW what being triggered actually means?

Oh! And the slippery-slope fallacy, wherein anti-warning people are saying, but but but, if I have to warn for rape and child abuse, then soon I'll have to warn for the color orange! (That's an actual argument.)

Pro-warning people are saying, wow, is it that hard to be a decent human being?

And apparently it is.


Steph L. - Jun 29, 2009 7:08:41 am PDT #14479 of 30000
this mess was yours / now your mess is mine

Oh, my god, stop reading. People have failed so hard.

Man, I was so impressed with Zvi during RaceFail, and now I just keep cringing at her posts. Gah.


Fay - Jun 29, 2009 7:09:36 am PDT #14480 of 30000
"Fuck Western ideologically-motivated gender identification!" Sulu gasped, and came.

Oh dear. See, that just makes me want to go and play catchup, in a masochistic fashion.

I must admit, I generally don't give much thought to warnings, coming from a vague books-don't-do-this-shit mindset (and quite liking stories to surprise me - provided the surprise isn't bad prose or poor characterisation - I mean, I'm good with character death, or whatever, provided it's written convincingly), but the first thing (almost only thing) in the kerfuffle that I read was a very compelling essay by a woman who's a survivor of quite appalling abuse, and it was pretty much a sledgehammer of cluestickdom that, hey, I should think about including warnings.


tommyrot - Jun 29, 2009 7:10:12 am PDT #14481 of 30000
Sir, it's not an offence to let your cat eat your bacon. Okay? And we don't arrest cats, I'm very sorry.

if I have to warn for rape and child abuse, then soon I'll have to warn for the color orange!

Argh! Your use of the word "orange" is freaking me out, man! You should have warned me!


Vortex - Jun 29, 2009 7:11:04 am PDT #14482 of 30000
"Cry havoc and let slip the boobs of war!" -- Miracleman

You KNOW that I don't like the color orange!!!


erikaj - Jun 29, 2009 7:12:56 am PDT #14483 of 30000
"already on the kiss-cam with Karl Marx"-

Yes, seems like it...I don't get what's so hard about that. You need people to know what they're getting, without, hopefully, giving the story away too much. The end. But of course, I've never really needed much warning until I started ficcing HBO. I put one up about the cursing, just in case. I don't want all the blame for what comes out of Ari Gold's mouth.ETA: I think it's terrible that anyone is fighting abuse victims on that. Because "triggering" someone might mean "give them horrible nightmares for a week" or something, which, even though I like hard-boiled murder stories, I'd feel really badly about. Think of the warnings as part of the trailer, people.


Steph L. - Jun 29, 2009 7:14:16 am PDT #14484 of 30000
this mess was yours / now your mess is mine

but the first thing (almost only thing) in the kerfuffle that I read was a very compelling essay by a woman who's a survivor of quite appalling abuse

That was...I have no words for it. What she went through was unthinkable, and that she was willing to post about it makes me think she's about the strongest person on the planet.

a vague books-don't-do-this-shit mindset

But, with books, someone with triggers can at least go to Amazon, and most of the time, the reviews will include vague allusions to (but also sometimes spoilery descriptions of) big ugly triggery stuff. So if that reader wanted info, they could get it. Fanfic doesn't have that equivalent.


Trudy Booth - Jun 29, 2009 7:14:35 am PDT #14485 of 30000
Greece's financial crisis threatens to take down all of Western civilization - a civilization they themselves founded. A rather tragic irony - which is something they also invented. - Jon Stewart

I can see both sides of that kerfuffle (well, obviously not the extremely assy behaviors). I wouldn't want to give away plot points and screw up my foreshadowing (Is this the scary dramatic part? Is THIS the scary dramatic part?) but people shouldn't be risking nightmares and panic attacks over some light reading either.

Is there any talk of adopting a Not!Warning warning? Something along the lines of: For creative purposes I do not give warnings on my stories. Please ask a friend who is aware of your concerns to read it first.