What bothers me about today's news is that they are reporting his kids are with his mother, and presumably, his father . . . who abused Michael.

Yeah, I hope somebody else ultimately gets custody of them. And I expect they're already stunted in certain ways, even if Michael never did anything but dote on them.

did he ever have a chance of being able to tell right from wrong?

Do you think this would play in court? That he's mentally incompetent to make moral choices? I don't.

You have to be schizophrenic or psychotic to get that benefit of the doubt legally. He made choices that were damaging and harmful to other people. He had a fucked up life, but so did my mom. She didn't fuck my life up. It stopped with her.

Yeah, but Hec, I think the difference then lies in the upbringing. If you'd been raised on the world stage with everyone telling you everything you did was wonderful and surrounded by sycophants who catered to your every whim, you undoubtedly would have turned out much, much different.

He never had a sense of what the world was like for the majority of its inhabitants.

ETA: Do I think it would play in court, however? Probably not. No matter how true it might be.

I do think he molested kids, because he exhibits all the traits of molesters

Which is a common enough opinion, but at least one Psychologist, who was appointed by the court and actually examined Jackson and his accuser, assessed that Jackson didn't fit the profile of a pedophile but was rather a regressed ten year old.

Which has always made sense to me. That along with: The first accuser's Mother never believing it; the first accuser's Father apparently looking for a pay-day; the second accuser,s Mother being a bit of a grifter herself; and the jury acquitting, have me come down on "not a pedophile."

Do you think this would play in court? That he's mentally incompetent to make moral choices? I don't.

I won't say that I do think he was mentally incompetent, but I wonder if he was.

He had a fucked up life, but so did my mom.

REALLY not to belittle anything your mom went through, but Jackson lived a life that few outside of royalty will ever experience.

I'm NOT saying it gives him a free pass. I'm NOT saying we should just forgive him for anything he did. ALL I am saying is that, were I his judge or whatever, I'd have to think about that.

Do you think this would play in court? That he's mentally incompetent to make moral choices? I don't.

I don't think that had anything to do with his defense when he actually DID go to court. And was acauitted.

Do I think it would play in court, however? Probably not. No matter how true it might be.

And ultimately, I'm not sure it would play in court, either. Or with me. But it gets my consideration.

assessed that Jackson didn't fit the profile of a pedophile but was rather a regressed ten year old.

Which has always made sense to me.

Me, too. He tried very hard to re-create the childhood he never had.

I'm not making an assessment of whether or not he sexually abused kids. I have no way of knowing.

I guess what I'm getting at with Jackson's complete divorce from normality is to wonder, with an abusive upbringing himself, and an entire life spent insulated and surrounded by protecters and enablers, did he ever have a chance of being able to tell right from wrong? Especially in this one area. I suspect the life he led is as foreign to us as any kind of normal life was to him.

Was his life as a child significantly different than other child stars? Or, at least, significantly different than other child stars with abusive parents (of which there have unfortunately been a ton)? I can think of a lot of those former child stars who have had drug or alcohol problems, or who do seem to have some psychological issues, but I can't think of any other who's as far off from the adult definition of "normal" in any direction as Michael Jackson.

I'm glad that the therapeutic model isn't the basis for our legal system. But rather adults are held responsible for their behavior.

Problem is, Sean, as uniquely fucked up and insulated as MJ's life was, he still has a moral obligation to examine his actions and know their consequences. I expect this of every mentally competent adult. To put it in Sartrean terms, his failing is that he lied to himself. That he chose to believe the lies that were perpetuated around him. Because of that he had no check on reality. That he could believe that his lack of boundaries (at the very least) was not damaging to other children.