You're not friends. You'll never be friends. You'll be in love till it kills you both.

Spike ,'Sleeper'


Natter 56: ...we need the writers.  

Off-topic discussion. Wanna talk about corsets, duct tape, or physics? This is the place. Detailed discussion of any current-season TV must be whitefonted.


Lee - Jan 24, 2008 6:44:50 pm PST #5303 of 10001
The feeling you get when your brain finally lets your heart get in its pants.

Good Luck and YAY Liese!


Liese S. - Jan 24, 2008 7:01:20 pm PST #5304 of 10001
"Faded like the lilac, he thought."

It's been a ride, I'll tell you that much. And hope the yay is not premature...don't wanna jinx it!


Burrell - Jan 24, 2008 7:11:42 pm PST #5305 of 10001
Why did Darth Vader cross the road? To get to the Dark Side!

Congratulations Liese! I am awed, truly.

I just get so fed up with whining. She can completely outlast all my resolutions to ignore it and wait her out. She is extremely strong-willed, but at the same time really vulnerable and, you know, four.

This. So true it kinda hurts.

I am not always so good at discipline. Sometimes, maybe, but yesterday I lost my temper and yelled at Franny and she cried on and off for like an hour and I STILL feel guilty. Mean yelling mommy. But it really was an eye-opener to realize how much my yelling upset her, I really need to not do that.

As far as effective discipline techniques, we sometimes do the counting thing. Franny usually reads that as Mom is Serious and falls in line pretty fast. Sometimes we go for the time out, but that wasn't working until I realized that the trick was to just sit him on a chair in the same room and tell him he needed to Calm Down. With Isaac, his misbehavior is most often caused by high spirits, not ill-temper, so once he realized he wasn't being punished per se he was much more willing.


Daisy Jane - Jan 24, 2008 8:04:21 pm PST #5306 of 10001
"This bar smells like kerosene and stripper tears."

Yay Liese! I'm so happy for you guys! If there's anything else you need info on, let me know. I may not work there anymore, but I figure I at least have several months before I forget everything I learned.

Staying waaaaaay far away from the raising kids discussion. I'm mostly the aunt/godmother/whatever who shows up, gives them whatever they want and then hand them back to their evil parents. This is because I'm an asshole. I am able to talk my friend's 11 year old out of white tights and an animal print skirt with gold wedges though, so it's a tradeoff.

THIS SUCKS! I finally found a great hair stylist in the wretched place and he turns out to be more than a little unbalanced. He stopped going to work, lost his shop and was last seen in a drunken stupor.

That happens a lot.


Liese S. - Jan 24, 2008 8:19:51 pm PST #5307 of 10001
"Faded like the lilac, he thought."

Seriously, woman. I cannot thank you enough. I quite literally could not have done it without your excellent advice. (And lots of other peoples' generosity too, but that aside...) I may have questions for you on the mortgage side, but hopefully that will go smoothly, too.


Daisy Jane - Jan 24, 2008 8:23:59 pm PST #5308 of 10001
"This bar smells like kerosene and stripper tears."

Yay! I'm glad I could help!


Daisy Jane - Jan 24, 2008 8:45:31 pm PST #5309 of 10001
"This bar smells like kerosene and stripper tears."

Did we or did we not make up the word ricockulous? I ask because I just saw it in a TWOP recap, and I'm pretty sure we did it first.


DavidS - Jan 24, 2008 8:52:47 pm PST #5310 of 10001
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

Child discipline! I've done that!

I spent Emmett's 2-3 years giving a timeout a day. Which was nothing like, "Go sit quietly in a corner" and a lot like "I'm standing on this side of your door holding the door shut while you scream like a wounded animal while alternating said screams with pitiable plaintive cries like, 'I want to be a good boy!' such that I felt like all the Dickens villains ever rolled into one."

So. They don't understand causality until they're 2ish. So consequences doesn't mean much before then.

And even then it's just behavior modification, really.

But here's the thing that helped me the most. Emmett's godmother, Karen, told me, "They cry to change their environment. They don't have much agency and that's all they've got. It's not manipulation except in the sense that when you hold something in your hand you're manipulating it."

I found that when I was enforcing boundaries and disciplining Emmett that I focused on behavior, and that I always disciplined in a situation where I could control what was happening (at home, usually).

And by behavior, I just mean very specific rules about how to act: don't throw toys, don't hit, don't break things, don't do [that dangerous thing] etc.

Emmett only ever got timeouts, and the rule of thumb was 1 minute timeout for every year of age. But that the minute didn't start until he stopped yelling. The idea that he was being punished was very upsetting to him but that was sufficient. The actual punishment was only "be quiet in your room for a couple minutes" but around that we had many hours of holleration.

Still, when he got a little older (4+) if he was being a pill about a certain thing I'd look for an opportunity to bust him on it (at home) so it wouldn't be an issue out in the world.

Because one thing that is a deeply ingrained part of Emmett's character is testing. Oh, will he test the boundaries. And even still he will go right up to the very edge of them. But he knows where they are.


Burrell - Jan 24, 2008 9:06:27 pm PST #5311 of 10001
Why did Darth Vader cross the road? To get to the Dark Side!

Ugh. Parenting is hard. Thanks Hec, I find your post very reassuring.

We just watched The Simpsons Movie. Made me laugh.


Hil R. - Jan 24, 2008 9:29:29 pm PST #5312 of 10001
Sometimes I think I might just move up to Vermont, open a bookstore or a vegan restaurant. Adam Schlesinger, z''l

I found an article today that mentions that my great-grandfather's first cousin was marginally involved in the Lindbergh baby kidnapping case. (After Bruno Hauptman had been sentenced to death, this other guy, Paul Wendel, confessed to having been the real kidnapper. He then denied it and said that he'd been kidnapped and beaten up until he confessed. Anyway, it seems that nobody ever really believed that this guy had done it. My relative testified at the trial that he had seen Wendel with a crying baby the night of the kidnapping.)

Anyway. I googled for a bit more information about the Wendel case. I discovered that the internet is just full of conspiracy theories about the Lindbergh case. (Very few of the internet people seem to believe that Wendel did it, either. But they don't think that Hauptmann did.)