The next time you decide to stab me in the back... have the guts to do it to my face.

Mal ,'Ariel'


Natter 56: ...we need the writers.  

Off-topic discussion. Wanna talk about corsets, duct tape, or physics? This is the place. Detailed discussion of any current-season TV must be whitefonted.


Liese S. - Jan 24, 2008 8:19:51 pm PST #5307 of 10001
"Faded like the lilac, he thought."

Seriously, woman. I cannot thank you enough. I quite literally could not have done it without your excellent advice. (And lots of other peoples' generosity too, but that aside...) I may have questions for you on the mortgage side, but hopefully that will go smoothly, too.


Daisy Jane - Jan 24, 2008 8:23:59 pm PST #5308 of 10001
"This bar smells like kerosene and stripper tears."

Yay! I'm glad I could help!


Daisy Jane - Jan 24, 2008 8:45:31 pm PST #5309 of 10001
"This bar smells like kerosene and stripper tears."

Did we or did we not make up the word ricockulous? I ask because I just saw it in a TWOP recap, and I'm pretty sure we did it first.


DavidS - Jan 24, 2008 8:52:47 pm PST #5310 of 10001
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

Child discipline! I've done that!

I spent Emmett's 2-3 years giving a timeout a day. Which was nothing like, "Go sit quietly in a corner" and a lot like "I'm standing on this side of your door holding the door shut while you scream like a wounded animal while alternating said screams with pitiable plaintive cries like, 'I want to be a good boy!' such that I felt like all the Dickens villains ever rolled into one."

So. They don't understand causality until they're 2ish. So consequences doesn't mean much before then.

And even then it's just behavior modification, really.

But here's the thing that helped me the most. Emmett's godmother, Karen, told me, "They cry to change their environment. They don't have much agency and that's all they've got. It's not manipulation except in the sense that when you hold something in your hand you're manipulating it."

I found that when I was enforcing boundaries and disciplining Emmett that I focused on behavior, and that I always disciplined in a situation where I could control what was happening (at home, usually).

And by behavior, I just mean very specific rules about how to act: don't throw toys, don't hit, don't break things, don't do [that dangerous thing] etc.

Emmett only ever got timeouts, and the rule of thumb was 1 minute timeout for every year of age. But that the minute didn't start until he stopped yelling. The idea that he was being punished was very upsetting to him but that was sufficient. The actual punishment was only "be quiet in your room for a couple minutes" but around that we had many hours of holleration.

Still, when he got a little older (4+) if he was being a pill about a certain thing I'd look for an opportunity to bust him on it (at home) so it wouldn't be an issue out in the world.

Because one thing that is a deeply ingrained part of Emmett's character is testing. Oh, will he test the boundaries. And even still he will go right up to the very edge of them. But he knows where they are.


Burrell - Jan 24, 2008 9:06:27 pm PST #5311 of 10001
Why did Darth Vader cross the road? To get to the Dark Side!

Ugh. Parenting is hard. Thanks Hec, I find your post very reassuring.

We just watched The Simpsons Movie. Made me laugh.


Hil R. - Jan 24, 2008 9:29:29 pm PST #5312 of 10001
Sometimes I think I might just move up to Vermont, open a bookstore or a vegan restaurant. Adam Schlesinger, z''l

I found an article today that mentions that my great-grandfather's first cousin was marginally involved in the Lindbergh baby kidnapping case. (After Bruno Hauptman had been sentenced to death, this other guy, Paul Wendel, confessed to having been the real kidnapper. He then denied it and said that he'd been kidnapped and beaten up until he confessed. Anyway, it seems that nobody ever really believed that this guy had done it. My relative testified at the trial that he had seen Wendel with a crying baby the night of the kidnapping.)

Anyway. I googled for a bit more information about the Wendel case. I discovered that the internet is just full of conspiracy theories about the Lindbergh case. (Very few of the internet people seem to believe that Wendel did it, either. But they don't think that Hauptmann did.)


Liese S. - Jan 24, 2008 10:32:28 pm PST #5313 of 10001
"Faded like the lilac, he thought."

I can't sleep. Do any of you know where I put my copy of Terry Pratchett's "Making Money?" I can't find it because I took the dust cover off and now it's a very unassuming reassuringly thick black book. Of which I have more than one.


Strega - Jan 24, 2008 11:17:58 pm PST #5314 of 10001

It's in that pile by the bookcase.

...Or not.

I read something recently that said children's brains can't really grasp the concept of "the future" until around 3 years old. And even then, their ability to predict the results of their actions is pretty shaky. (Hell, it's shaky for adults.)


JenP - Jan 25, 2008 1:40:58 am PST #5315 of 10001

I'm having a little trouble grasping my immediate future at the moment, because it involves going out there in the cold while it's still dark. This is not my normal morning. Hence the grasping issues.

OK, here I go...


Sue - Jan 25, 2008 2:42:21 am PST #5316 of 10001
hip deep in pie

Hey Good Luck and Congratulations Liese!!