Reynolds, I'm a dangerous-minded man on a ship loaded with hurt. Now, why you got me chatting with your peons?

Womack ,'The Message'


Buffista Movies 6: lies and videotape  

A place to talk about movies--old and new, good and bad, high art and high cheese. It's the place to place your kittens on the award winners, gossip about upcoming fims and discuss DVD releases and extras. Spoiler policy: White font all plot-related discussion until a movie's been in wide release two weeks, and keep the major HSQ in white font until two weeks after the video/DVD release.


Sean K - Mar 26, 2008 7:13:53 am PDT #4671 of 10000
You can't leave me to my own devices; my devices are Nap and Eat. -Zenkitty

I think it's fair to say that art is frequently an interactive process in that the audience may see something very different from what the author intended. Not least because each member of the audience brings a different world view to the experience of the work.

Witness: the Left Behind books. Because of a fundamental difference in world view the authors and people who like those books see great art. Those who do not share their world view see outlandishly massive flaws in the work, and gain insight into the mind of the authors that the authors themselves cannot see.

I think they're related, but craft is more about facility and technical skill rather than intent and expression.

Particularly in the theater and film industries, but also in art in general, I would argue that they are equal parts facility/technical skill and intent/expression. It was an interesting try at an argument, but I've seen enough facility and technical skill on display in most art to find this argument to not hold water.


Jesse - Mar 26, 2008 7:21:38 am PDT #4672 of 10000
Sometimes I trip on how happy we could be.

For example, as an illustrator and painter I consider myself a fairly skilled craftsman and I can usually draw upon those skills to create work of some quality when needed. But I only occasionally feel inspired to act in the capacity of an artist, create something for the sake of creating.

I feel the same way, as a writer.


erikaj - Mar 26, 2008 7:22:11 am PDT #4673 of 10000
Always Anti-fascist!

I think I met that guy at a conference, once.


Nutty - Mar 26, 2008 7:23:04 am PDT #4674 of 10000
"Mister Spock is on his fanny, sir. Reports heavy damage."

Actually, and as a side note on the art/craft distinction, there's a lot to be said about whose craft is art, and whose art is craft, to paraphrase George Carlin. Anyway, quite a lot of tranditionally female-oriented activities get dismissed for being "just a craft," while activities that men dominate are called art, or are called art when they're doing it. Like how no man is a cook in the kitchen, he's always a chef.

Which is one of the reasons I'm reluctant to create a sharp distinction between the two.


Frankenbuddha - Mar 26, 2008 7:28:42 am PDT #4675 of 10000
"We are the Goon Squad and we're coming to town...Beep! Beep!" - David Bowie, "Fashion"

For some reason the art/craft discussion has made me flash on the "death is your art" line from Buffy. Was it really her art, or was it her craft? I'd say the lines definitely blurred at times (using her skills on routine patrol being craft, while a more personal use of her skills probably edged over towards art).


Miracleman - Mar 26, 2008 7:30:14 am PDT #4676 of 10000
No, I don't think I will - me, quoting Captain Steve Rogers, to all of 2020

For some reason the art/craft discussion has made me flash on the "death is your art" line from Buffy. Was it really her art, or was it her craft? I'd say the lines definitely blurred at times (using her skills on routine patrol being craft, while a more personal use of her skills probably edged over towards art).

Well, based on Tom Scola's criteria, which work as well as any, it was her art...because it definitely rated high on the Coolness axis.


megan walker - Mar 26, 2008 7:32:18 am PDT #4677 of 10000
"What kind of magical sunshine and lollipop world do you live in? Because you need to be medicated."-SFist

That way lies madness and/or semiotics.

Frank, please to tag?

Also, "Art", according to the first definition of Webster's unabridged:

the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance.

Although Tom Scola's Theory of Cool has a much better ring to it.


Frankenbuddha - Mar 26, 2008 7:32:39 am PDT #4678 of 10000
"We are the Goon Squad and we're coming to town...Beep! Beep!" - David Bowie, "Fashion"

Well, based on Tom Scola's criteria, which work as well as any, it was her art...because it definitely rated high on the Coolness axis.

Heh, but you're probably not going to get much empathy from/with vampires.


Frankenbuddha - Mar 26, 2008 7:33:45 am PDT #4679 of 10000
"We are the Goon Squad and we're coming to town...Beep! Beep!" - David Bowie, "Fashion"

Frank, please to tag?

I'd be honored!


Hayden - Mar 26, 2008 7:52:09 am PDT #4680 of 10000
aka "The artist formerly known as Corwood Industries."

I felt a lot more empathy for Potemkin when I realized that Eisenstein cast himself as the crazy padre.

Anyway, I have no dog in this hunt, but I am suffering a bit of cognitive dissonance that it's David, champion of the plastic and the pre-fab and scourge of that dirty word "authenticity," who is making the more exclusionary argument about who can wear the mantle of the artist. Well, I'm off to go stick a feather in my cap and call it macaroni.