Y'know - I sometimes thing Australia is the country culturally most like the U.S. This is a hell of a leap for someone who has never been there but...

As one who has, now, lived in both countries, I agree. The Economist at the start of the year had an article which included the results of three studies comparing America's values to those of other countries. The one I find most interesting is from the University of Michigan, which conducted surveys in 78 countries. It used the results to score the countries on two axes; one covers the extent to which a country's values are traditionalist or secular-rational (western Germany, for instance, scores highly towards the latter, and Colombia towards the former). The other axis covers quality of life issues, and scores the extent to which a country's values are 'survival-oriented' or geared towards self-expression (Romania scores tsrongly towards survival values, Iceland towards self-expression).

Anyway, it's probably not too surprising that countries in similar geographical and/or socio-economic groupings score similarly. Scandinavia all tends towards secular-ratinal and self-expressive values, countries of the Middle East tend towards the reverse. The US scores strongly towards self-expression over survival values, but also scores moderately traditionalist, about on par with Poland or India.

The country closest to it in this space is Australia. Australia values self-expression more highly (higher than just about anyone else but the Netherlands or Sweden), but is also mildly traditionalist. The other countries nearest to this point are the other Anglo-Saxon nations, such as Canada and New Zealand. Britain and Ireland are not streets away either, though they're both more survivalist, and Britain is more secular-rational while Ireland is markedly more traditionalist.

All of which goes to say that yes, there is a case to be made for Australia being culturally like the US. (Especially California, IMO, which already has the trees.) Though it's also worth noting (as does the article) that the picture of the US offers a false unity; the 50% nation contains a wide spectrum of possibilities, and could be thought of as the average of two nations, one predominantly Republican and even more traditionalist than the survey suggests, the other predominantly Democratic and probably about in line with Britain or Austria in values.

This wide disparity in values within the one country, of course, fuel its politics to a great extent. It seems to me that most of the hot-button issues (such as abortion, prayer in schools, teaching evolution etc) very much embody the divide.

Lord knows we're the country who's Prime Minister is most interested in the inside of George Dubya's ass.

As I occasionally note, at the time of the September 11 attacks, the only head of government in Washington DC was Australia's

Interesting discussion. I have to say Kassto is completely on the money, in that middle-class Antipodeans are brought up to think that British culture is inevitably superior to American--the words "American trash" were almost a tautology in my household when I was growing up--so it can be quite hard to convince people that American commercial TV can be worthwhile at all, never mind which is ultimately "better".

Oh, and I don't really like Six Feet Under either. (My views on American Beauty are a matter of public record; in the interests of my blood pressure I won't revisit them.)

I think the biggest difference would be the religious aspect. We're a predominately Anglican in theory (I think that's what the last census said), but I think it's more of a lip-service aspect of our culture than it is in large sections of the US.

Statistically, there are marginally more Catholics in Australia than Anglicans - although the C of E is still the state religion (again nominally, with the resignation of Peter Hollingworth). However, the number of nominal Anglicans doesn't reflect levels of devotion. Weekly attendance at Anglican services was, at least a couple of years ago, outdone by attendance at Pentecostalist services, despite the fact that only 2% or so of the population claims allegiance to the latter.

We worship sport far more than any religion, either way.

Hee. This is true. Also a nation of sun-worshippers. (I figure we're basically pagans at heart.)

Overall, I'd say we probably see ourselves as more like the Americans, in terms of 'world-view' than even British, at this point.

That survey I mentioned would back this up, though we're closer to both than most countries, even most developed countries. (Though the closest country to Australia is Canada.) Personally, though, I'm definitely closer to the Brits in attitude.

Personally, though, I'm definitely closer to the Brits in attitude.

Yes, me too, but I wonder if that's a class thing?

What gets me is that SFU isn't really a subversion, it's just the opposite side of the same coin, and thus it's just as pat and cliche filled as the original stereotype.

Exactly.

I have a peculiar obsession with the actual suburbs and with American family life in all their mayhem and mess. And he just. doesn't. get. it.

At all. I mean, has the stupid nit ever seen either?

Feh.

Ken, I watched the Simpsons for MG alone, and for a particular sensibility that infected both that and his wonderful work on Life In Hell, which is where I knew him from in the first place.

It moved from being deliciously insane to trying to hard over the years, and no longer causes me more than a delicate chuckle.

If I want that old feeling back, I'll watch Family Guy on Aduly Swim.

Oh, and I don't really like Six Feet Under either. (My views on American Beauty are a matter of public record; in the interests of my blood pressure I won't revisit them.)

Angus is wise.

I watched SFU due to loyalty to one of the actors, and then stopped due to not having cable any more, but I can see the irritation factor. A certain preachiness; a certain annoying inability to write married women/moms as anything other than humdrum; a certain la-di-da, aren't we so groundbreaking and different, when after about a year (13 episodes), I was like, this is as soapy as (other HBO show) Oz, except without the prison and the tattooing. It was occasionally hilarious, as when David took a ecstasy pill (thinking it aspirin) right before a family dinner, and spouted Siddhartha nonsense all evening with an idiot grin on his face, but after a while it became rather eh.

Australia has always struck me as like Britain, with nicer weather and a lot fewer people saying "Still, mustn't grumble", a phrase I am told is the very essence of the modern British character.

Yes, me too, but I wonder if that's a class thing?

This is an interesting question. As noted, the political divide in the US describes quite a difference in basic values. I'm not so sure the value gap is as wide between Labor and Liberal (though I do feel it is between John Howard and, say, humanity); I think you're right, in Oz it would be more class-based. (Which is funny in a way, because I think Australia also perceives itself as more classless. 80% or so of the country describes itself as middle class.)

For a long time, of course, that divide was between Irish-Catholic-working class versus British-Anglican-middle class. To simplify greatly. That particular dichotomy isn't so important these days (except possibly to my in-laws), but it's possible a dual value strand continued.

However, of my own family, I would certainly be the most Brit-oriented (though also probably the most pro-American). Even my accent at least used to be mistaken for English on occasion back in Australia. (It's become broader since I've been over here, but of course I still get mistaken for English here since it still falls short of the Crocodile Hunter's.) So it's not just class.

One of the (many) fascinating things about the latest Aussie Big Brother is that it's brought the latent class issues in Australian society bubblng to the surface.

I think Australia is more like America than like Britain. But I could be talking out of my ass (but not my fanny!).

It all depends on what basis you use for comparison. (Obviously!) I mean, we have a welfare state, we have a queen, we have scones (proper ones), we have cricket, but we also have dollars and cents, surfing, tans, perceived (but entirely fictional) classlessness, overinvestment in sporting achievements, etc etc etc...