What gets me is that SFU isn't really a subversion, it's just the opposite side of the same coin, and thus it's just as pat and cliche filled as the original stereotype.

Exactly.

I have a peculiar obsession with the actual suburbs and with American family life in all their mayhem and mess. And he just. doesn't. get. it.

At all. I mean, has the stupid nit ever seen either?

Feh.

Ken, I watched the Simpsons for MG alone, and for a particular sensibility that infected both that and his wonderful work on Life In Hell, which is where I knew him from in the first place.

It moved from being deliciously insane to trying to hard over the years, and no longer causes me more than a delicate chuckle.

If I want that old feeling back, I'll watch Family Guy on Aduly Swim.

Oh, and I don't really like Six Feet Under either. (My views on American Beauty are a matter of public record; in the interests of my blood pressure I won't revisit them.)

Angus is wise.

I watched SFU due to loyalty to one of the actors, and then stopped due to not having cable any more, but I can see the irritation factor. A certain preachiness; a certain annoying inability to write married women/moms as anything other than humdrum; a certain la-di-da, aren't we so groundbreaking and different, when after about a year (13 episodes), I was like, this is as soapy as (other HBO show) Oz, except without the prison and the tattooing. It was occasionally hilarious, as when David took a ecstasy pill (thinking it aspirin) right before a family dinner, and spouted Siddhartha nonsense all evening with an idiot grin on his face, but after a while it became rather eh.

Australia has always struck me as like Britain, with nicer weather and a lot fewer people saying "Still, mustn't grumble", a phrase I am told is the very essence of the modern British character.

Yes, me too, but I wonder if that's a class thing?

This is an interesting question. As noted, the political divide in the US describes quite a difference in basic values. I'm not so sure the value gap is as wide between Labor and Liberal (though I do feel it is between John Howard and, say, humanity); I think you're right, in Oz it would be more class-based. (Which is funny in a way, because I think Australia also perceives itself as more classless. 80% or so of the country describes itself as middle class.)

For a long time, of course, that divide was between Irish-Catholic-working class versus British-Anglican-middle class. To simplify greatly. That particular dichotomy isn't so important these days (except possibly to my in-laws), but it's possible a dual value strand continued.

However, of my own family, I would certainly be the most Brit-oriented (though also probably the most pro-American). Even my accent at least used to be mistaken for English on occasion back in Australia. (It's become broader since I've been over here, but of course I still get mistaken for English here since it still falls short of the Crocodile Hunter's.) So it's not just class.

One of the (many) fascinating things about the latest Aussie Big Brother is that it's brought the latent class issues in Australian society bubblng to the surface.

I think Australia is more like America than like Britain. But I could be talking out of my ass (but not my fanny!).

It all depends on what basis you use for comparison. (Obviously!) I mean, we have a welfare state, we have a queen, we have scones (proper ones), we have cricket, but we also have dollars and cents, surfing, tans, perceived (but entirely fictional) classlessness, overinvestment in sporting achievements, etc etc etc...

Interesting discussion. I have to say Kassto is completely on the money, in that middle-class Antipodeans are brought up to think that British culture is inevitably superior to American--the words "American trash" were almost a tautology in my household when I was growing up--so it can be quite hard to convince people that American commercial TV can be worthwhile at all, never mind which is ultimately "better"

Yep, this is true for me as well. My mother took a dim view of all television, but I think she found the American stuff I wanted to watch particularly offensive. Though I think that was partly a morality thing, considering she was fairly strict on religious grounds when I was growing up. She hated Xena with a passion, and I had to record and watch Buffy in secret for a while before she gave up attempting to regulate my viewing habits, which my Dad now regularly categorizes as 'American crap'.

It all depends on what basis you use for comparison. (Obviously!) I mean, we have a welfare state, we have a queen, we have scones (proper ones), we have cricket, but we also have dollars and cents, surfing, tans, perceived (but entirely fictional) classlessness, overinvestment in sporting achievements, etc etc etc...

True, but on the latter point, I'm not sure if that's so much a difference between us and Britain, or simply that we have sporting achievements. I mean, England still got pretty wound up about beating the German soccer team 5-1.

One of the (many) fascinating things about the latest Aussie Big Brother is that it's brought the latent class issues in Australian society bubblng to the surface.

One assumes you're being facetious about the 'fascinating' thing (I have reality television bigotry issues, I know, but I loathe Big Brother. Grettle whatsherface is the overly made-up undead.) But is this to do with the accent thing? I'd noticed they had, um, how to put this in a way that doesn't involve the word 'yobo'...a more varied selection of participants this year. Is there a lot of snobbery going on?

I am being utterly 100% unfacetious about the "fascinating" thing. And I love Gretel.

Yes, there's a certain amount of snobbery, perceived at least.