Willow: That's a work ethic! Buffy, you're developing a work ethic! Buffy: Do they make an ointment for that?

'Beneath You'


Buffy 4: Grr. Arrgh.  

This is where we talk about Buffy the Vampire Slayer! No spoilers though?if you post one by accident, an admin will delete it. This thread is NO LONGER NAFDA. Please don't discuss current Angel events here.


RobertH - Nov 05, 2003 5:59:00 pm PST #6493 of 10001
Disaffected college student

I know nothing of psychologically disturbed Riley.

"You're attracted to the dark supernatural broody so I'm letting these Initiative enhancements kill me" blah blah blah.

I can live with the one-sided-ness of Riley's return, simply because I don't have a dog in that fight. I was happy to focus on Riley in the ways he wasn't connected to Buffy, few as those may have been.

The demon eggs and the not telling about not killing the first demon, not so great. But not a disaster for the story.


Frankenbuddha - Nov 05, 2003 6:02:14 pm PST #6494 of 10001
"We are the Goon Squad and we're coming to town...Beep! Beep!" - David Bowie, "Fashion"

Eh, everyone has different standards. Allyson's been saying forever that Buffy died for her (along with Buffy, go figure) in season 5. But she was one of AS YOU WERE's biggest defenders. I think she may have liked it better than OMWF, but don't quote me on that.

Granted, I don't know ANYONE who liked SHE or DOUBLEMEAT PALACE that much. I personally kinda like that latter, but that's because I worked enough in that sort of environment to really enjoy the satire without it taking over my life so much that representations of the same send me screaming from the room.


RobertH - Nov 05, 2003 6:06:43 pm PST #6495 of 10001
Disaffected college student

Granted, I don't know ANYONE who liked SHE or DOUBLEMEAT PALACE that much.

I liked Doublemeat Palace enough to not have any adverse reaction to someone announcing it was their favorite episode ever. I can see things in it that could really strike someone's funnybone the right way.

She . . . Marti Noxon counts as "anyone", right?


ted r - Nov 05, 2003 6:23:54 pm PST #6496 of 10001
"You got twelve, and they got twelve. The old ladies are just as good as you are." -Dr. Einstein

I hated the Car Crash of Crack Magic. I hated that whole story line. I thought (hoped) it was going to be about Willow's abuse of power and how she kept using magic because she was so insecure about who she was.

Not to start that whole debate up again, but some of us didn't see the addiction metaphor as cancelling out the abuse of magic because of insecurity metaphor.


JenP - Nov 05, 2003 6:38:48 pm PST #6497 of 10001

I thought it would be hilarious in much the same way that one "BArney Miller" episode was so funny.

"Good in milk. Go 'mooshie, mooshie.'" I loved Jack Soo.

God that was a good show.

I can't think of a BtVS show that I really dislike so much I wouldn't watch it again. I actually liked As You Were. Oh, well, OK, Where the Wild Things Are or whatever that was called is among my least favorites. I've still seen it at least twice, though. I am also one of the Season 6 likers. The few, the defensive ... (kidding. Not defensive. Stop looking at me like that, dammit!)


Frankenbuddha - Nov 05, 2003 6:42:33 pm PST #6498 of 10001
"We are the Goon Squad and we're coming to town...Beep! Beep!" - David Bowie, "Fashion"

I can certainly see the argument that EVERYONE (except Giles since he wasn't around) grasped at the straws of addiction in order to not face up to other possibilities, or because it just made everything easier to get on with things. And then Tara's death basically put the kibosh on that theory in one swell foop. However, the text (shakes in the shower for example) overwhelmed the subtext (worst than the other thing in Seeing Red I don't remotely want to get into here), regardless of intent. I think Giles put the lie to the addiction theory when he showed up, but, again, they'd tried misdirecting a bit too much.

In other words, I don't think WorldDestruction!Willow was remotely meant to be a represntation of an addict, but they played the metaphor to close to the real thing for it to quite make up for the wind that got let out of the "abuse of power" sails. I still enjoyed season 6 a whole lot - but I really think they dropped the ball/took the easy way out/blew it with this part. If they'd showed everyone really talking themselves into "Yes, Willow has a magic problem" rather than "Willow has some personality problems" in a way that felt like they were going for a convenient scapegoat so they could let Willow off the hook, I'd have felt better. It ended up playing too on the nose, I think.


Frankenbuddha - Nov 05, 2003 6:43:56 pm PST #6499 of 10001
"We are the Goon Squad and we're coming to town...Beep! Beep!" - David Bowie, "Fashion"

"Good in milk. Go 'mooshie, mooshie.'" I loved Jack Soo.

"Let's go down to the beach and shoot some clams."

Also, Ron Glass realizing they were all stoned, including himself.


helentm - Nov 05, 2003 7:36:41 pm PST #6500 of 10001
Religion isn't the cause of wars. It's the excuse. - Christopher Brookmyre

Y'know, Allan, if what happened to Riley in season 5 hadn't happened, AYW wouldn't bother me at all. I wouldn't *like* it, but... So much of how I judge episodes has to do with my bitterness quotient.

And, yeah, I liked Riley. Especially early Riley, that whole episode where he's getting Willow to help him ask out Buffy, and she's all bitter cause she's just broken up with Oz, that was fantastic.

Edit: Ooh! My first slut!


Lyra Jane - Nov 06, 2003 5:11:17 am PST #6501 of 10001
Up with the sun

As You Were, on the other hand, blamed *Buffy* entirely for the B/R break-up. Not even a mention of Riley's cheating. Or serious psychological issues. Or the fact that he barely mentioned somthing was wrong until after she'd found him getting bitten by a vampire.

But, see, it's told from Buffy's POV. And she is feeling really goddamn low right then, and her ex shows up and he seems to have a perfect life and a perfect wife. And she has a dead-end job, a self-hatred complex that has her screwing a former mortal enemy, and a hat with a cow on it. In that situation, hell yeah she's blaming herself. Some people might just be pissed at Riley, but Buffy isn't there right then.

(Remember that she was ready to forgive him when he left. Psychologically, it's clear she's always blamed the breakup on herself. Of course she's *wrong,* but she doesn't know that.)

I liked Riley's "you're up, you're down, but you're a hell of a woman" speech. The demon eggs thing was stoopid, but the ep as a whole was pleasant enough for me.


Fred Pete - Nov 06, 2003 5:34:10 am PST #6502 of 10001
Ann, that's a ferret.

And she is feeling really goddamn low right then, and her ex shows up and he seems to have a perfect life and a perfect wife.

And at the end, she at least takes a concrete step to getting her life back together by breaking up with a guy who's completely and utterly wrong for her.