If you didn't want her to leave and never come back you shouldn't have said it.

Totally. Her words were, "If you leave this house don't even think of coming back." Joyce said get out. Buffy did.

Have none of you ever said anything in a moment of anger and passion that you regretted later and really didn't mean? Maybe it's just that I grew up in the Emotional Instability Funhouse, but I'm fairly certain we did that on a weekly basis. I still do sometimes, which drives Patrick up a wall.

That said, I agree that Joyce should have taken more responsibility for her words.

Yeah, I'm with Lyra. My parents kicked certain of my siblings out of my house or my siblings threatened to leave on a daily basis during the late teens/early 20's years. Hell, the last time my family were visiting, I ended up leaving my own house for the night. I think that type of threat is commonplace in familial arguments.

It's in....Faith, Hope, and Trick, maybe. Great scenes. Buffy lies at first and tells Giles that the spell didn't work, and then she comes clean eventually.

"I kissed him, and I told him I loved him. And I killed him."

Yes! This weekend it's on (here). I do remember that. I meant, though, that in DMP they didn't ask anything about what had happened at the end before they went all "you deserted us" on her. It added to my annoyance with the scoobies. Which was probably intended. Crafty writers. Because, I can certainly remember times in my life when my anger took the forefront (but what about ME!!!!) when, perhaps, had I bothered to check, I would have found out that Person X had a defensible reason for doing something that I got angry about. Shocking as that might have been to my worldview at the time.

I think that type of threat is commonplace in familial arguments.

It's very easy to say in the heat of the moment, and it makes it clear that the speaker feels very strongly about the matter. The trouble is, there are consequences (as Joyce learned) if the recipient feels equally strongly.

But one of the easiest ways to alienate me is to give me an ultimatum.

I think that type of threat is commonplace in familial arguments.

It's very easy to say in the heat of the moment, and it makes it clear that the speaker feels very strongly about the matter. The trouble is, there are consequences (as Joyce learned) if the recipient feels equally strongly.

Certainly I had similar-sounding arguments with my mother at that age, and statements like Joyce's made it almost irresistable to actually take her up on them, in an "I'll show her" kind of way.

Thank god I'm not sixteen any longer.

For me, Xander is the biggest 'whap him over the head' candidate. Every time, I hear that 'So your honey was a demon. Most girls don't jump on a greyhound bus out of boy troubles,' I'm just *grrrrrrr, snarl, grrr*. I have this entire rant I shout at Xander(every time I see the episode), but you can probably live without it, it's not very coherant.

I get angry with Xander but...we don't really see much of what happens over the summer. We see them at the end of it, when they've pretty much coped. We don't see the first days, week, month when Buffy's disappeared and they have no idea what's happened to her. When they know Angelus didn't destroy the world, but they don't really know if he's still out there. And when they're left in this still new, scary world, without the one with the powers, the one they depended on. As understandable as it was, especially to us with the full knowledge of what happened, she still ran off without a word. She abandoned them. So yeah, there's going to be some residual anger there. It's not necessarily fair of them to take it out on her the way they do, but I get the impulse.

We see them at the end of it, when they've pretty much coped. We don't see the first days, week, month when Buffy's disappeared and they have no idea what's happened to her.

Heh, heh, heh. So, basically, I'm mad at them for doing to Buffy what I do to them when I watch the ep, which is get mad first, ask questions later. Lordy, lordy, what a brilliant show! (Or, what a brat I am. But not like Kennedy. Geez. She's spoiled the word brat for me.)

But my issues with Xander are like unto my issues with Joyce, in that I don't actually have a problem with what the character did in season 2. However having done that, I don't think they should get to pull the self-rightuousness card in season 3.

And for clarity, when I talk about Xander's actions in season 2, I mean partly the lie, but mostly the things he said in Passion. I understand he was grieving, so don't mind it so much then, but cut him less slack in the future because of it.

Have none of you ever said anything in a moment of anger and passion that you regretted later and really didn't mean? Maybe it's just that I grew up in the Emotional Instability Funhouse, but I'm fairly certain we did that on a weekly basis.

Well, yeah. See my later post about Joyce not maning it in the same way my mother didn't mean what she said to me.

Certainly I had similar-sounding arguments with my mother at that age, and statements like Joyce's made it almost irresistable to actually take her up on them, in an "I'll show her" kind of way.

I don't think it's an "I'll show her." kind of thing. When your young and your parent says something as serious as "Get out." or "Don't come back" what are you supposed to think? You're not mature enough to calm down and ask if it's what they really mean, and they're too freaked and angry to take it back. Plus, I think, they're used to having their control unquestioned when their kid is younger. When the kid is a teenager a whole lot of that is lost and the default argument about why they have control is that they provide shelter and food. Look at how many arguments between teenagers and parents come down to "as long as you're under my roof" "I put a roof over your head" etc.

Buffy had kind of manhandled Joyce, just before she started to leave, and Joyce told her to stay out. I cut Joyce a lot of slack in that scene. I understand why Buffy left; she'd lost everything. But I think she knew Joyce would have taken her back; she just didn't care.