If you didn't want her to leave and never come back you shouldn't have said it.

Totally. Her words were, "If you leave this house don't even think of coming back." Joyce said get out. Buffy did.

Oh, right ON. I know I'm not a parent and therefore don't have thaty perspective, but every time I watch Dead Man's Party, I want to yell at Joyce and say "You TOLD her to get out -- what did you expect?"

I saw DMP again this weekend, too. Not only did I want to slap the scoobies upside the head, but that busybody Pat got what she deserved.

I thought that they were just venting their concern to her, but they were darned supercilious about it. They don't know about Angel not being Angelus when Buffy killed him, so their snarkiness is extra emphasis intended for us because we do know.

I think there should be zombie masks made available so annoying characters like Pat can be killed over and over until we are all satisfied and can let them go in peace.

but that troublemaker Pat got what she deserved.

Ooo, she was annoying, wasn't she? For some reason I always think she's a demon from the beginning, but upon rewatch I realise that she was just the regular kind of evil and the demon bit didn't come till the very end.

What I love about DMP is that I can't really decide who's in the right because well, nobody right and that's the point (though I call no-way on Willow 'forgetting' that she was going to meet Buffy to go shopping--that was just a bit of pettiness on Willow's part, imho).

Yeah, that's very true, Leigh. I identify really strongly with Buffy, but you can really see everyone's positions.

Yeah... condidering that the rest of the gang had gone through hospitalizations, torture, the murders of two friends, and their lynchpin suddenly disappearing on them without a word, I think there was enough trauma on all sides to justify the snippiness.

What I love about DMP is that I can't really decide who's in the right because well, nobody right and that's the point

Totally. Because moral highground really is shifty like that.

DMP is also one of those episodes that always reminds me, in sort of a more mundane way than the big trauma episodes like Becoming, just how invested I am in these characters. Seeing them fight gives me a similar visceral physical anxiety as when there's conflict amongst people I love in real life.

Seeing them fight gives me a similar visceral physical anxiety as when there's conflict amongst people I love in real life.

Oh yeah, though on balance I probably get more anxious watching Buffy & co. fight because my family tends towards being overly vocal on a pretty regular basis. Also we're usually arguing over stuff like who broke the coffee-maker, and not because I sent my newly re-ensouled demon lover to hell and then ran off to L.A for three months.

What I love about DMP is that I can't really decide who's in the right because well, nobody right and that's the point (though I call no-way on Willow 'forgetting' that she was going to meet Buffy to go shopping--that was just a bit of pettiness on Willow's part, imho).

Wrod. And yeah! Regarding Willow not forgetting to show up for shopping... Willow was giving Buffy a taste of her own medicine. I guess I give her a pass for that, though. Aside from the big argument in the middle of the DMP party, the bedroom argument between W&B (before the zombies invade the party) angers me, too. Willow is all, "I was having serious dating," in a self-righteous tone to her friend that she knew had been thrown out of her house, expelled from her school, and had to kill her lover (or at least--as far as Willow knows--the demon who wore his face) to save the world. And we're supposed to think she was wronged because she was having "serious dating", and learning glamor spells to hide zits? In the final scene in DMP, when B&W are at the coffee house of Willow's moral superiority, and they make up--that always makes me angry, too. Willow's talking about all her issues, when Buffy is still expelled from school, and won't be readmitted until FH&T. Pffft.

They don't know about Angel not being Angelus when Buffy killed him, so their snarkiness is extra emphasis intended for us because we do know.

See...this. Given what DMP did and did not reveal, it's hard to know whether they didn't know, or just didn't want to know. Remember in Becoming part 2, that Willow was taken over during the Restoration spell. She, Oz, and Cordelia at least (because Oz & Cordy were with Willow) had reason to suspect that Buffy somehow killed Angel and not Angelus. Again, I'm not faulting DMP for this. It makes for a nice little game of brain ping-pong.

The Buffy-Empathetic Brain Cells (BEBC) are saying: They should have at least suspected!

The Scooby-Empathetic Brain Cells (SEBC) are saying: How could they have known? Once they figured out she killed him, they must have figured the spell fell flat!

BEBC: Well, then why didn't they accuse her of running off with a newly resouled Angel then? They mentioned that was a possibility at the end of Becoming.

SEBC: Look, Willow was still pretty green where magic was concerned at this point. Even though she felt the spell's effects, and Oz and Cordy saw them, none of them had much experience with regard to magic. How could they have known it might have worked?

BEBC: Over the summer, they must have told Giles what happened to Willow when she performed the spell, over the summer. Wait! No! They told Giles about the orb glowing and something going through Willow at the end of Becoming part 2.

SEBC: But...back then, Giles didn't know much about magic, either.

BEBC: Bollocks! Lie to Me retconned that point of canon. He knew a lot. He just pretended he didn't. And if he didn't suspect something was fishy about Angel's death, then later on in Faith, Hope, and Trick, why did he trick Buffy that he was doing a binding spell to ensure Acathla remained dormant?

SEBC: Just to make her get it all out, we guess.

BEBC: But...but...why...and how did they know she killed him at all? Nobody was left at the mansion by the time Buffy killed Angel.

SEBC: Good point... What are we fighting about again?

BEBC: I dunno. Where's the pie?

SEBC.: What pie?

BEBC.: You bastards! You ate all the bloody pie, didn't you?

SEBC: *brushes crumbs from corner of little brain celly mouths*

BEBC: *plunges sword through the SEBC and into Acathla*

SEBC: *get sucked into hell*

BEBC: *move to L.A. and start waitressing*

t grabs Cindy's post and runs to COMM.

:):):)

Okay, I adore Cindy's post with big buckets of adoration, cause my brain has those kind of arguments. (Only not so funny)

For me, Xander is the biggest 'whap him over the head' candidate. Every time, I hear that 'So your honey was a demon. Most girls don't jump on a greyhound bus out of boy troubles,' I'm just *grrrrrrr, snarl, grrr*. I have this entire rant I shout at Xander(every time I see the episode), but you can probably live without it, it's not very coherant.

Much like this post.