She encouraged Dawn to raise her Mom from the dead by herself with no guarantee that it will turn out OK, but then wants to protect her in case Buffy comes back wrong?

I don't think she encouraged Dawn to raise her Mom. I think she pushed Dawn towards magic because that's where she dealt (poorly) with her emotional problems.

I don't buy it. I think she knew Dawn would be against it and had no defense.

I don't think Dawn would've been against it. I think Dawn would've easily been persuaded that Buffy's situation was different than her Mom's - because even by Jossiverse standards this was true. Buffy was able to come back because her death was "unnatural" - Dawn, who was miserable without Joyce and Buffy, would've grasped at just such a justification.

Bringing back Joyce went wrong.

Well, exactly. She knows there's no guarantee this is going to work, and she knows what happened last time and how it affected Dawn. So if Spike was right and Willow both knew that Buffy could come back wrong and she would have to stop her, why would she expose Dawn to that?

She encouraged Dawn to raise her Mom from the dead by herself with no guarantee that it will turn out OK, but then wants to protect her in case Buffy comes back wrong?

I don't think she thought about the prospect that Joyce could come back wrong. I also think the Joyce experience is why she realised it was an issue, and why she knew it would be better not to involve Dawn. I mean, how would she bring it up? "I know it didn't work so well with your mother, but I reckon I've got the bugs ironed out now."

I have trouble seeing leaving Dawn out of the loop as an indication that she thought what she was doing was wrong. I can see why she'd be affected by Giles telling her she was going too far, as he has some knowledge and experience in such matters; but why would she be troubled by the judgment of a kid?

Willow seems to have the attitude w/r/t magic of It's Better to Do It and Ask Forgiveness Later Rather Than Ask Permission First.

Heh. Willow is never about Asking Persmission. Ever.

Dawn, who was miserable without Joyce and Buffy, would've grasped at just such a justification.

Considering that she was hugging the Buffybot for comfort, I agree.

She encouraged Dawn to raise her Mom from the dead by herself with no guarantee that it will turn out OK, but then wants to protect her in case Buffy comes back wrong?

I never thought Willow pointing Dawn toward that book was her encouraging Dawn to raise Joyce. I thought it was giving her an answer that was more whole than "No we don't do that." The book itself wasn't enough to do it. In fact, Dawn had to find other books to tell her what to do.

Both of them would have kept a fucked-up zombie!Buffy around.

You think so? To me, the fact that Dawn tore the picture and destroyed zombie!Joyce says she would have been willing to destroy zombie!Buffy.

To me, Dawn is more capable of being unsentimental and making tough decisions when she has to than Spike.

Investigate where Buffy may be? Why? They need her back, and don't people go to hell? Don't they? Of course they do.

I won't disagree that Willow acted with arrogance, but she did have good reason to assume Buffy was in hell since Buffy died jumping into the gateway to a demon dimension.

Considering that she was hugging the Buffybot for comfort, I agree.

Awww man, that was the saddest scene. It broke me.

I never thought Willow pointing Dawn toward that book was her encouraging Dawn to raise Joyce. I thought it was giving her an answer that was more whole than "No we don't do that." The book itself wasn't enough to do it. In fact, Dawn had to find other books to tell her what to do.

Willow was less taking the "we don't do that" party line, than she was taking the "I don't know if that can be done" party line, until Tara spoke up. Then Willow adopted Tara's stance, because... well, because that's what Willow does. But Willow didn't buy it and would have tried it herself (did later), and I think she never thought Dawn would get it done, but I don't think popping the book out was in any way anything other than encouragement.

I post. too. slow.

I saw Willow giving Dawn the book in Forever as encouraging her to bring her mother back. That book was all she needed - when he sees in her in the cemetary Spike says "That book you have is infamous."

When they (Tara) realize it is missing they call Buffy right away because the know what Dawn is doing.

eta: she needed more than that book for the spell - I meant, that book had what she needed in it.

Willow seems to have the attitude w/r/t magic of It's Better to Do It and Ask Forgiveness Later Rather Than Ask Permission First.

Heh. Willow is never about Asking Persmission. Ever.

Which is why I think her actions in raising Buffy were perfectly in character.

Both of them would have kept a fucked-up zombie!Buffy around.

You think so? To me, the fact that Dawn tore the picture and destroyed zombie!Joyce says she would have been willing to destroy zombie!Buffy.

When Joyce died, Dawn still had Buffy. But once Buffy died, she didn't have any family, just the 'bot. I think she would have kept a zombie!Buffy. Hell, she slept with the 'bot. That's very telling.

t x-post on 'bot-sleeping-with-ness