You have the emotional maturity of a blueberry scone.

Giles ,'Touched'


Buffy 4: Grr. Arrgh.  

This is where we talk about Buffy the Vampire Slayer! No spoilers though?if you post one by accident, an admin will delete it. This thread is NO LONGER NAFDA. Please don't discuss current Angel events here.


Gandalfe - Aug 15, 2003 6:23:59 am PDT #4604 of 10001
The generation that could change the world is still looking for its car keys.

But I'm saying that it wasn't unreasonable for her to think that Buffy was in hell.

And, don't forget, they all had proof that Hell dimensions existed. Heaven? Not so much.


Frankenbuddha - Aug 15, 2003 6:27:05 am PDT #4605 of 10001
"We are the Goon Squad and we're coming to town...Beep! Beep!" - David Bowie, "Fashion"

Remember too that the spell was interrupted before Willow could complete it. Didn't Monkey'sPaw!Joyce get out of her grave without the need for digging?

This is what I was just saying.

I don't think we saw enough of Monkey Paw!Joyce to know whether she dug her own way out or not.

shudder


Katie M - Aug 15, 2003 6:39:46 am PDT #4606 of 10001
I was charmed (albeit somewhat perplexed) by the fannish sensibility of many of the music choices -- it's like the director was trying to vid Canada. --loligo on the Olympic Opening Ceremonies

why she didn't let Tara and the others know that the spell required the blood of an innocent.

Well, it was a deer. A cute baby deer, I'll admit, but we've never been given any indication that any of them are vegetarians. If you're willing to kill an animal to eat it, I can't get morally up in arms about killing an animal in order to bring your friend back from the dead. (Whether it was right to bring said friend back is a whole 'nother issue.)


UTTAD - Aug 15, 2003 6:41:10 am PDT #4607 of 10001
Strawberry disappointment.

But it was clearly a big deal to Willow and Tara otherwise she would've told them that she got the blood from a handy deer.


Katie M - Aug 15, 2003 6:42:25 am PDT #4608 of 10001
I was charmed (albeit somewhat perplexed) by the fannish sensibility of many of the music choices -- it's like the director was trying to vid Canada. --loligo on the Olympic Opening Ceremonies

Yes, but this is Stupid. (A lot of my reaction to Bargaining involves me thinking Yes, but that's Stupid. I mean, come on. Three months? No one asks the relevant questions? No one thinks about digging her up? Tara's all "well, I knew it was wrong but we did it anyway?" Nuh-uh.)


UTTAD - Aug 15, 2003 6:45:08 am PDT #4609 of 10001
Strawberry disappointment.

Well I know nothing about Wiccan stuff, put I'm assuming that Thou Shalt Not Slit The Throats Of Cute Baby Deers is well up on their Wiccan Commandments.


§ ita § - Aug 15, 2003 6:45:14 am PDT #4610 of 10001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

They had no evidence that she'd have gone to hell. They have a sample set of precisely zero of people who died and came back and said they were in hell. ZERO.

She could have been in Maui, for all they know.


Matt the Bruins fan - Aug 15, 2003 6:45:32 am PDT #4611 of 10001
"I remember when they eventually introduced that drug kingpin who murdered people and smuggled drugs inside snakes and I was like 'Finally. A normal person.'” —RahvinDragand

I was puzzled that neither Tara nor Anya knew about the sacrificial requirement. I mean, the previous season my impression was that Tara knew a lot more about magical history than Willow (though of course she lacked the talent for application the latter possesses), and Anya's been around for a thousand years.


§ ita § - Aug 15, 2003 6:46:53 am PDT #4612 of 10001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Giles's horror at the spell led me to think it's not something Tara would know anything about -- way darker than her. Anya? If she'd shown more general spell knowledge, maybe I'd have been surprised.


Cindy - Aug 15, 2003 6:55:34 am PDT #4613 of 10001
Nobody

And, don't forget, they all had proof that Hell dimensions existed. Heaven? Not so much.

Again, all that proof came from people who entered the hell dimensions in a bodily fashion. The Scoobies buried Buffy's corpse. They knew this was not the case with her. And Anya had told them there are all sorts of dimensions (world without shrimp, world with all shrimp, etc.) so they knew there wasn't only Hell dimensions.

Well, it was a deer. A cute baby deer, I'll admit, but we've never been given any indication that any of them are vegetarians. If you're willing to kill an animal to eat it, I can't get morally up in arms about killing an animal in order to bring your friend back from the dead. (Whether it was right to bring said friend back is a whole 'nother issue.)

I agree with UTTAD; it was clearly a big deal to Willow, or she wouldn't have done it in secret and then lied about it, and that's the point. And I wasn't referencing this just because an innocent animal was killed - but because of what kind of magicks it must have involved, if/since it required the blood of an innocent. This wasn't like waving a pretty flower around and saying, "Forget," to Willow. She didn't act as though it were; she obfuscated as though - to her - it was a very big deal.

Tara knew a lot more about magical history than Willow (though of course she lacked the talent for application the latter possesses), and Anya's been around for a thousand years.

Anya has little-to-no moral compass. (The puppy gets her sad noise.) She probably didn't think it through because in her mind, it had little to do with her, Xander, their engagement or money. Tara probably (fanwank ahoy ---) never read the sorts of texts (or at least the entries in some texts) surrounding such dark magicks, to keep herself from temptation.