Yikes, JZ! Here's hoping posting makes it happen.

I 100% refuse to even engage with Dad on the subject of my mother, and by telling him that Mom never shit-talks him, that would be engaging him on the subject, so I won't do it.

This is a gold-standard plan.

It's astonishing how long people can hang on to a defense mechanism. After all this time, the shit-talking has GOT to be about something other than the subject of the shit-talking. No point in engaging.

It was incredibly liberating when I came to the point of telling the owner of the pet care company that I did not want to hear anything another employee said about me.

It was frustrating for _her_ weirdly, but ultimately my "Your opinion of me is none of my business" (thanks Mark Twain) stance has garnered an excellent result. He doesn't talk about me at all any more.

I'm with -t, JZ! May the ~ma ring your phone!

Please let us know what happens and what you learn...asking for a friend.

I suppose just copying last years self-eval and pasting it into this years would not optimal. Tempting, though.

I've done that, -t. Boss didn't even notice, or didn't care.

I've never wanted to go to Vegas, until Connie started talking about the awesomeness of lounging poolside and eating croissants in little cafes.

It's astonishing how long people can hang on to a defense mechanism. After all this time, the shit-talking has GOT to be about something other than the subject of the shit-talking. No point in engaging.

He gets something out of it, but I'm not sure what. After all this time, does he still need the ego boost of trying to come off as the wronged party in the divorce? I don't know, and I'll never ask him, because, again, I'm not engaging with him on it.

It is, of course, super complicated (isn't it always???) by the fact that my mom was a horror of a parent, chock-full of narcissism and gaslighting. And so for a while, post-divorce, when Dad would shit-talk Mom, it was actually beneficial for me, because he validated that Mom's horrible behavior really did happen, and it really was abusive and awful, and I wasn't making it up/blowing it out of proportion.

I needed his validation to be able to process and deal with Mom's horrible parenting. And yet, letting him shit-talk Mom back then did in fact set a precedent, and he thinks he can continue to shit-talk her.

But like I said, *I* shut him down HARD when he tries it with me these days. I don't know why he insists on trying it with my brother. I guess he figures my brother is his only outlet left.

I told my brother that he should hang up on Dad, and if Dad calls me to complain/act like the injured party, I will back him (my brother) up 100% and tell him to cut that shit out.

I guess he figures my brother is his only outlet left.

This is why everyone needs friends! There is some shit you should never say to the people most closely connected. Sheesh.

My mother was telling me recently how her aunts told her mother that they just didn't like my aunt. When she was like 8 years old. First off, who even thinks that, but when you have thought it, WHY WOULD YOU TELL THE CHILD'S MOTHER? Just say it to each other!

They were adults at the time? Wow.

He gets something out of it, but I'm not sure what. After all this time, does he still need the ego boost of trying to come off as the wronged party in the divorce?

I have some speculations about the 'benefit' of those habits, but that is a long-long conversation.

The short form is that we learn what it means to be us in the world long before we are in relationships and that learning includes being influenced by people whose losses have nothing materially to do with us, but we STILL learn how we are supposed to process loss from them.

One example is the impact of the Depression on people of my generation and younger who weren't even remotely involved, but still have tenacious stories of deprivation and fear.

In my work, it almost doesn't matter WHY you think a thing, just the acknowledgement that you do think it. THEN you can make some choices and practice some replacement behaviors that can subvert the software glitch, so to speak.

The trick is being willing to a) let go of the fantasy that somehow proving you are right about something...or being recognized as right by others...will actually make you happy and b) replacing the negative behavior with something that actually benefits you beyond the level of entertainment.

Heh. Tep, I think you just helped me to decide what tidbit I'm going to share today in my on-going quest for votes in the Best Life Coach in DC Poll!!

Tep, I think you just helped me to decide what tidbit I'm going to share today in my on-going quest for votes in the Best Life Coach in DC Poll!!

I owe it all to my dad. [winky emoticon]