I can beat up demons until the cows come home, and then I can beat up the cows.

Buffy ,'Dirty Girls'


Natter 69: Practically names itself.  

Off-topic discussion. Wanna talk about corsets, duct tape, or physics? This is the place. Detailed discussion of any current-season TV must be whitefonted.


§ ita § - Feb 03, 2012 8:46:23 am PST #19982 of 30001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

But can a guy in your office (or in a more structured corporate environment) wear a pink shirt and some lip gloss and earrings with his suit?

I think it's overstated because women are 50% of the population, and we don't have it that badly. Guys can wear pink shirts here, and do (I've had guys covet my pink shirts without shame), and although I hope to never see it, it was explicitly called out that capri pants were okay for both genders.

In a workplace too conservative for corsets.

because other days you wear a skirt and corset

Nope. Many women here never wear skirts or heels and don't wear any makeup or jewelry. More than one is straight up (so to speak) short haired and always androgynously dressed (unfitted slacks, polo shirts, etc). I'm girly up in here--the boundaries of drag are not being pushed by me. Other women here got that.

there's plenty of places in this country where it would be pretty tough to be even a little androgynous

What counts as even a little androgynous? No makeup or chick jewelry? Jeans and sneaks and loose gender-neutral tops?


erikaj - Feb 03, 2012 8:47:56 am PST #19983 of 30001
Always Anti-fascist!

I think it's because some fans of Brad and Angelina have this sense that when Shiloh was born, they got a new toy. And that she has some kind of dynastic duty to be the world's prettiest princess. I think that's why people make such a deal out of Clooney not marrying and/or knocking up the babe du jour--they're not sad for him, they want a moppet to play with.


Ginger - Feb 03, 2012 8:48:55 am PST #19984 of 30001
"It didn't taste good. It tasted soooo horrible. It tasted like....a vodka martini." - Matilda

When I was a kid I wanted an Erector set. Fat chance. I did get the chemistry set.

I wanted both. I got neither. I'm still bitter.

I have never been a fan of the Komen people, and since the breast cancer, I have come to hate them a little more every year. For one, there's a lot of what has been termed "pink washing" out there. Many of the companies that paint everything pink in October make a single donation that is not linked to how many pink mixers or pink guns people buy.

The ugly truth is that poor women have a much higher risk of dying of breast cancer than women who have the money or insurance to be able to afford good medical care. While there are controversies about mammograms, they are a big part of the increase in early diagnoses, and an early diagnosis means a less physically damaging treatment and a much higher probability of preventing recurrence.

Research is all very well, but it's aimed at saving women in the future. Screening and treatment for women who can't afford it saves lives now.

Also, if you look at the numbers, you'll see that more of Komen's budget goes to "awareness" than research. Awareness is a fuzzy term that can be interpreted as "getting more companies to give us money so they can make pink things."


sumi - Feb 03, 2012 8:51:13 am PST #19985 of 30001
Art Crawl!!!

OMG!

I'm calling my bank to report my lost CC and they want my account number - for the cc. . . which I don't have because I' ve lost the damned card.


Consuela - Feb 03, 2012 8:51:18 am PST #19986 of 30001
We are Buffistas. This isn't our first apocalypse. -- Pix

Jeans and sneaks and loose gender-neutral tops?

For those middle-schoolers? Yup. Fat girls who dressed in sweatshirts got thrown into garbage cans and bullied into cutting and suicide attempts.


Polter-Cow - Feb 03, 2012 8:52:19 am PST #19987 of 30001
What else besides ramen can you scoop? YOU CAN SCOOP THIS WORLD FROM DARKNESS!

I'm calling my bank to report my lost CC and they want my account number - for the cc. . . which I don't have because I' ve lost the damned card.

Do you have an online banking account you can check?


Jessica - Feb 03, 2012 8:55:28 am PST #19988 of 30001
And then Ortus came and said "It's Ortin' time" and they all Orted off into the sunset

What counts as even a little androgynous? No makeup or chick jewelry? Jeans and sneaks and loose gender-neutral tops?

Yes.

Your male co-workers in their pink shirts - could they get away without commentary if it was a pink skirt?


sumi - Feb 03, 2012 8:57:39 am PST #19989 of 30001
Art Crawl!!!

Online banking doesn't have your entire account number on it.

I wound up calling the regular customer service line to speak to a human being.

So frustrating.


Jesse - Feb 03, 2012 9:03:07 am PST #19990 of 30001
Sometimes I trip on how happy we could be.

Also, if you look at the numbers, you'll see that more of Komen's budget goes to "awareness" than research. Awareness is a fuzzy term that can be interpreted as "getting more companies to give us money so they can make pink things."

And seriously, is anyone unaware of breast cancer?


§ ita § - Feb 03, 2012 9:06:59 am PST #19991 of 30001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

could they get away without commentary if it was a pink skirt?

I don't know if skirts are allowed. Just capris. I assume if they can get away without commentary on a skirt, pink isn't the breaking point. But, please note, I've not argued that they have an easy time of it. I'm saying that the women here do, pretty easily.

And that just looking around outside of the pressure cooker that is school, women dressing in sweats and loose jeans don't seem to be walking like they're flipping the finger to society.

Yeah, I've been dinged because people don't think I dress femme enough. I've missed out on more sex because of it, in fact. But...there's sex I don't need to have. I don't think that any professional issues I may have are related to me never having worn eye shadow or foundation or blush, and rarely wearing lipstick or nail polish or earrings. My CIO doesn't wear that stuff either. My manager wears eye shadow every day, but I've never seen her in a skirt. Even this week's business formal involved an oversized cardigan over her slacks and button-down shirt.