Well, this is damned depressing. You know how all those career-advice columns say women should just get over their (culturally-imposed) modesty and ask for the raise and the promotion? The gender gap in careers and salaries would go away if we all just expressed our ambition in the same way that men do!

Apparently that advice is wrong: women who do ask, still lag behind men. Isn't that just awesome?

Damned if you do, damned if you don't, huh?

Well. How... by accident? Like, how does that work? Then we'll see if it helps.

It fell into my purse the day of the big haircut, and then I kept it when I found it.

msbelle: [link]

It helps. Because I know you wanted to know. MmmmHmmm.

Apparently that advice is wrong: women who do ask, get punished. Isn't that just awesome?

Of course they do.

The "women are generally socialized not to make waves and ask for more" thing accounts for some of the gap, for sure. But it's less often that people acknowledge the flip side of that - bosses (male and female, though I would hope to a lesser degree) are socialized to see those who do make waves in a negative light. Pushy, instead of ambitious. Bitch, instead of driven. Same coin, different side.

Not that that's all there is to it, by any means.

To be fair, I misstated the results--it doesn't seem as though they get punished, but they also don't get the raises.

Apparently that advice is wrong: women who do ask, get punished. Isn't that just awesome?

If I'm reading the report correctly, they're not being punished for it. Women who speak up still do better than women who don't.* However, it doesn't close the gender gap. Proactive women can still expect a lower payoff than proactive men.

• Quote: "When women were most proactive in making their achievements visible they advanced further, were more satisfied with their careers, and had greater compensation growth than women who were less focused on calling attention to their successes. Of all the strategies used by women, making their achievements known—by ensuring their manager was aware of their accomplishments, seeking feedback and credit as appropriate, and asking for a promotion when they felt it was deserved—was the only one associated with compensation growth."

Edit: crosspost.

My MiL had a few of those Victorian hair lace memento mori thingies. I find them deeply uncanny. They feel like objects of dark magic to me.

It helps. Because I know you wanted to know. MmmmHmmm.

I do think it's a little weird and a little gross that I kept it for years....

Did anyone hear from Kathy?

I fought hard for gender equity in pay in my first job out of university, and it totally didn't work out. Since then? I just try not to know what my co-workers make.

I don't have any male peers now! Eat me.