Strong like an Amazon.

Tara ,'Storyteller'


Natter 69: Practically names itself.  

Off-topic discussion. Wanna talk about corsets, duct tape, or physics? This is the place. Detailed discussion of any current-season TV must be whitefonted.


Allyson - Dec 22, 2011 2:22:30 pm PST #12671 of 30001
Wait, is this real-world child support, where the money goes to buy food for the kids, or MRA fantasyland child support where the women just buy Ferraris and cocaine? -Jessica

They don't see it as Big Alterna though. That's the thing I don't get.

It's a strange blind spot. "But this is snakeoil" doesn't help.

I've been watching this happen on message boards regarding Beastie Boy Adam Yauch and his eastern medicine/vegan diet. They all hail that as a cure. With no mention of the fact that he had the cancer cut out of neck and went through several rounds of radiation treatments. It wasn't a monk or shaman who diagnosed his cancer, either. It was an actual medical doctor with those fancy degrees.

It's not that I'm against drinking herbal tea or switching to a vegan diet. These things are not hurting him, or anyone else, really, and can give someone a sense of control over a body that seems to be actively out of control. You can go to Dana Farber and the doctors will work with you on whatever spiritual/alterna thing you want to do in addition to proven scientific treatments. They want you to feel better emotionally and psychologically as well. If you do, you're likely to continue your treatment and do the things you need to do to get well.

So that irks me. The idea that some conspiracy establishment "doesn't want you to know" about these things. They do know, and often will say, "hey, you want to meditate and eat organic beets? That's ok. Just let us know what you're doing."

Some of these "all-natural" remedies do have serious side-effects or severe interactions with other things.

Also, hydrofluoric acid is also natural. Have a sip. I'll call the hearse. PEOPLE.


meara - Dec 22, 2011 2:23:24 pm PST #12672 of 30001

Well, yes. Because I am neither skinny nor blonde enough to be a sales rep. Also, while there may have been times in my life that I was perky enough for it, it has not been in the last ten years.

Though I did get described recently as "sweet and efficient". Which I think is pretty awesome. :)


Jesse - Dec 22, 2011 2:30:07 pm PST #12673 of 30001
Sometimes I trip on how happy we could be.

Plus I highly doubt that if they'd actually done some testing that would show this magic cancer-killing drug worked, that anyone would be able to keep it a secret.

There was a great This American Life about a whackadoo potential cancer cure recently. Recommended!


hippocampus - Dec 22, 2011 2:33:59 pm PST #12674 of 30001
not your mom's socks.

Steph rocks. That is all.

Also, my doc is not trying to kill me. Just the Thing that has set up residence in my face. Which is fine.


DavidS - Dec 22, 2011 2:51:13 pm PST #12675 of 30001
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

I just read that somewhere, that they recruit cheerleaders for pharma sales.

"Ain't no party like a pharma girl party!" - Barney, HIMYM


§ ita § - Dec 22, 2011 2:59:32 pm PST #12676 of 30001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Though I did get described recently as "sweet and efficient".

While I get described as "gangsta"? Where have I gone professionally wrong?


Theodosia - Dec 22, 2011 3:07:22 pm PST #12677 of 30001
'we all walk this earth feeling we are frauds. The trick is to be grateful and hope the caper doesn't end any time soon"

The TAL piece wasn't about a whackadoo cure -- but an unconventional guy who maybe had a good enough idea to get a Real Researcher(TM) involved and how they found they couldn't work together. Why anecdotal evidence isn't good enough for scientific research and more.

The high point of my Xmas vacation was supposed to be a big family get together in PA with relatives getting hotel rooms so they can visit with Mom, but because of my aunt (82) having a concussion and being on a no-travel restriction, they're postponing. I'll be with Mom, which is the big deal anyway, but I was looking forward to it. Ah well.


Typo Boy - Dec 22, 2011 3:07:49 pm PST #12678 of 30001
Calli: My people have a saying. A man who trusts can never be betrayed, only mistaken.Avon: Life expectancy among your people must be extremely short.

ave the people who hate Big Pharma and think they just want to make money and keep everyone sick and buying their drugs heard of compassionate use programs? We give away so much drugs for free!

Umm and also Big Pharma does do some awful things. I mean the "suppressed cure" is bullshit along with most of the altmedicine. But it is really true that Big Pharma has a long history of testing drugs in prisons and poor nations without gaining proper consent. Big Pharma does have a habit of funding studies of the safety and efficacy of drugs, and writing into the contract the ability to suppress the results if they are not appealing. Big Pharma seems to stop producing life saving drugs on occasion when more expensive ones can be produced more profitably. And none of this is a matter of conspiracy but doing what they can get away with that will make them a profit. And they really do need to be reined in. And none of this is to say they don't have good people doing good things An analogy:

Think of a poorly run apartment building. Not quite a slumlord but borderline. The landscaping lovely, the buildings are kept painted. There are really wonderful maintenance people to take care of minor problems. If your garbage disposal plugs they will run up and have it fixed the same day, usually within hours of your calling them. But Sweet Zombie Jesus forbid anything major goes wrong. If your water goes out it could be weeks before it is fixed. If you lose use of your heater or stove or hot water, it could be months. And of course the maintenance people and landscapers get insulted if you point this out. "We work very hard" they say. "Look how well we keep the place looking. Look at how fast we respond to calls. Why if it wasn't for people like us think how many more people would be homeless".

And of course it is not that most of the people working for the near slum lord are not wonderful. It is not that they don't work hard or do damn good work. It is not that providing housing is not a vital function. What is bad about the place is not the fault of 99% of the people working for the near-slumlord. What is good about the near-slum is probably due to the same 99%. But none of that changes one important fact: the place really sucks.


Jesse - Dec 22, 2011 3:27:26 pm PST #12679 of 30001
Sometimes I trip on how happy we could be.

The TAL piece wasn't about a whackadoo cure -- but an unconventional guy who maybe had a good enough idea to get a Real Researcher(TM) involved and how they found they couldn't work together. Why anecdotal evidence isn't good enough for scientific research and more.

Yeah, that was a terrible description -- it was an idea that was "so crazy, it just might work." As a notion, it was fairly wacky, though.


javachik - Dec 22, 2011 3:40:17 pm PST #12680 of 30001
Our wings are not tired.

Big Pharma is part of a capitalist system, for better AND for worse.