Hands! Hands in new places!

Willow ,'Storyteller'


Natter 69: Practically names itself.  

Off-topic discussion. Wanna talk about corsets, duct tape, or physics? This is the place. Detailed discussion of any current-season TV must be whitefonted.


Steph L. - Dec 14, 2011 7:22:04 am PST #11426 of 30001
this mess was yours / now your mess is mine

You are an individual, not a social statement.

But I, an individual, can participate in a social statement.

You can. My issue is still with the idea that cosmetics, which are heavily culturally baggage-laden, can be used as a statement of women's "power."

The assumption that I'm wearing makeup, dyeing my hair purple or wearing a skirt for anyone but me makes me nuts.

The assumption that appearance, and the items/tools which are marketed to women to "enhance" our appearance, exist in a cultural and societal vacuum free of any implications, makes me nuts.


§ ita § - Dec 14, 2011 7:26:26 am PST #11427 of 30001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

IO9 is reporting on a Mozambique breast self exam ad campaign that uses DC and Marvel superheroines doing their own exams. I wish people weren't treating it as sexual. Including the blog IO9 got the story from (IO9 themselves, aren't, particularly).

My issue is still with the idea that cosmetics, which are heavily culturally baggage-laden, can be used as a statement of women's "power."

I don't think that cosmetics (or anything that's used to enhance female attractiveness) are inherently contaminated. And I'll keep resisting that with quite some effort.

While wearing star spangled boy shorts.

Those are not boy shorts. Those are proper knickers.


Steph L. - Dec 14, 2011 7:29:23 am PST #11428 of 30001
this mess was yours / now your mess is mine

I don't think that cosmetics (or anything that's used to enhance female attractiveness) are inherently contaminated.

Why? And that's not a pugilistic "why?" -- I genuinely would like to know why you think that.


Kate P. - Dec 14, 2011 7:32:50 am PST #11429 of 30001
That's the pain / That cuts a straight line down through the heart / We call it love

I'm with Steph on this. I think it's great that lots of women love wearing makeup, and obviously I think one can wear makeup and still demand equal treatment and respect, but the idea of linking the wearing of lipstick to an international show of solidarity for women kinda skeeves me.


Steph L. - Dec 14, 2011 7:34:20 am PST #11430 of 30001
this mess was yours / now your mess is mine

Can't I wear lipstick and look a man in the eye and demand he treat me as an equal? Why is this an either/or proposition?

For me, when I entered this discussion, it's not an either/or of wear lipstick/don't wear lipstick. It's the idea that wearing lipstick is a way for women to show "power." Wear lipstick AND demand a man treat you as an equal; I just seriously doubt that if he does, it's because you're wearing Cherries In The Snow.

Buffy generally did both.

I totally missed the plot line about her power coming from her lipstick. Of course she did both. Again, *so* not the point I was making. How is wearing lipstick "showing power"? If we're going to go with the example of Buffy, how did her wearing lipstick ever, ever kill a monster?


§ ita § - Dec 14, 2011 7:38:01 am PST #11431 of 30001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Inherently? You think that makeup and other trappings of attractiveness are in their very nature compromised by sexual imbalances and the beauty myth? Really? That there's no way to use lipstick without being a party to that?

What are the boundaries you draw about women and their looks?

I'm genuinely surprised that you think it's *inherent* as opposed to common or problematic. I guess... I generally don't believe in much inherent contamination. I believe that symbols can be owned and repurposed--even if the message doesn't become global, that things can change, that things can be different *right* *now*.

I would genuinely like to know why you think it's inherent.


Connie Neil - Dec 14, 2011 7:38:20 am PST #11432 of 30001
brillig

If I look a man in the eye and demand equality and if I'm not wearing lipstick, am I dissing the women who are wearing lipstick?


Allyson - Dec 14, 2011 7:38:24 am PST #11433 of 30001
Wait, is this real-world child support, where the money goes to buy food for the kids, or MRA fantasyland child support where the women just buy Ferraris and cocaine? -Jessica

The idea that I am so naive as to not understand the bullshit marketing in the cosmetics industry or make an informed choice about what I wear on my face or body because i *like* it is offensive.


§ ita § - Dec 14, 2011 7:39:30 am PST #11434 of 30001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Yeah, to me, when it's inherent, there is no informed choice, and there is no way I can wear lipstick and not be party to the bullshit. And I resist being tarred with that brush. I do think I can wear lipstick on my own terms, even if not everyone is going to get that.


Lee - Dec 14, 2011 7:40:11 am PST #11435 of 30001
The feeling you get when your brain finally lets your heart get in its pants.

I cannot believe it has been 3 months already! Congratulations on this milestone and I hope things go well.

Thanks! And that's just since the last check up--it;s been 14 months since the surgery!