I don't think that cosmetics (or anything that's used to enhance female attractiveness) are inherently contaminated.

Why? And that's not a pugilistic "why?" -- I genuinely would like to know why you think that.

I'm with Steph on this. I think it's great that lots of women love wearing makeup, and obviously I think one can wear makeup and still demand equal treatment and respect, but the idea of linking the wearing of lipstick to an international show of solidarity for women kinda skeeves me.

Can't I wear lipstick and look a man in the eye and demand he treat me as an equal? Why is this an either/or proposition?

For me, when I entered this discussion, it's not an either/or of wear lipstick/don't wear lipstick. It's the idea that wearing lipstick is a way for women to show "power." Wear lipstick AND demand a man treat you as an equal; I just seriously doubt that if he does, it's because you're wearing Cherries In The Snow.

Buffy generally did both.

I totally missed the plot line about her power coming from her lipstick. Of course she did both. Again, *so* not the point I was making. How is wearing lipstick "showing power"? If we're going to go with the example of Buffy, how did her wearing lipstick ever, ever kill a monster?

Inherently? You think that makeup and other trappings of attractiveness are in their very nature compromised by sexual imbalances and the beauty myth? Really? That there's no way to use lipstick without being a party to that?

What are the boundaries you draw about women and their looks?

I'm genuinely surprised that you think it's *inherent* as opposed to common or problematic. I guess... I generally don't believe in much inherent contamination. I believe that symbols can be owned and repurposed--even if the message doesn't become global, that things can change, that things can be different *right* *now*.

I would genuinely like to know why you think it's inherent.

If I look a man in the eye and demand equality and if I'm not wearing lipstick, am I dissing the women who are wearing lipstick?

The idea that I am so naive as to not understand the bullshit marketing in the cosmetics industry or make an informed choice about what I wear on my face or body because i *like* it is offensive.

Yeah, to me, when it's inherent, there is no informed choice, and there is no way I can wear lipstick and not be party to the bullshit. And I resist being tarred with that brush. I do think I can wear lipstick on my own terms, even if not everyone is going to get that.

I cannot believe it has been 3 months already! Congratulations on this milestone and I hope things go well.

Thanks! And that's just since the last check up--it;s been 14 months since the surgery!

Sex bomb red lips don't seem to have the same impact.

I read that as a dig/condescending, Connie. Was I mistaken? If so, I'm sorry.

I do think I can wear lipstick on my own terms, even if not everyone is going to get that.

Me too. And I don't really give a shit if not everyone gets it, I do give a shit if Steph doesn't, because, you know, heart Steph.

The idea that I am so naive as to not understand the bullshit marketing in the cosmetics industry or make an informed choice about what I wear on my face or body because i *like* it is offensive.

I really don't think anyone is saying that. Of course you can make an informed choice. As Steph said earlier, you and ita ! are individuals. You have your own minds, you make your own choices for your own reasons. Nobody is denying that or saying you shouldn't.

What's problematic in this instance, at least as some of us see it, is tying a movement about "the power of women," and solidarity with women across the globe, to the wearing of lipstick, with all its cultural baggage, which (as you know) includes a lot of sexist bullshit.

I'm not saying don't do it. I'm saying I don't want to do it, and I understand why other women also don't want to. Wearing lipstick doesn't feel empowering to me. If it does to you, then that's great. But that's not how it works for me.