Aren't they something. They're like butterflies, or little pieces of wrapping paper blowing around.

Kaylee ,'Shindig'


Natter 68: Bork Bork Bork  

Off-topic discussion. Wanna talk about corsets, duct tape, or physics? This is the place. Detailed discussion of any current-season TV must be whitefonted.


DavidS - Aug 08, 2011 5:01:08 pm PDT #19807 of 30001
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

Another angle the press are taking (and I'm seeing it in the pictures they're showing) is that despite the racial aspect of the initial riot, they're emphasizing that teenagers are descending en mass in various areas to do the looting. Looks like lots of poor, white Council flat teens swooping in to do a little looting, a little havoc.

In short: ::cues up Sonic Youth's "Teenage Riot"::


Typo Boy - Aug 08, 2011 5:02:35 pm PDT #19808 of 30001
Calli: My people have a saying. A man who trusts can never be betrayed, only mistaken.Avon: Life expectancy among your people must be extremely short.

And again I think this is not disagreeing with anyone. But one of the comments at Hullabaloo:

Spontaneous uprisings almost always appear to be less political than opportunistic. Rarely is there much sophisticated political consciousness. Looting is in part about taking advantage of a situation to get yourself stuff. But ask yourself this-- under what conditions do the perceived pros of engaging in opportunistic looting and anarchy-- the confusedly mixed motives of venting unfocussed anger and getting free stuff-- outweigh the percieved cons-- fear of arrest, of losing a job, etc? 1) When you don't have a job or much else to lose. 2) When you don't see a prospect of getting a job or a future worth protecting, 3) When people in power are also perceived to be criminals with impunity, and 4) when the state and the forces of order have lost both some of their operational effectiveness and some of their moral authority. Looking at these 4 points, we can see that Cameron's austerity, unpunished bankster fraud, and the impact of the Murdoch scandal on the police, all have a very real impact on this turn of events. In short, even if most of the rioters are apolitical looters out for free stuff, this is still totally political.

I think that comment only makes sense if we distinguish "Political cause" from "political motive".


le nubian - Aug 08, 2011 5:08:29 pm PDT #19809 of 30001
"And to be clear, I am the hell. And the high water."

don't know London particularly well. Here is a map of the confirmed rioting areas:

[link]


DavidS - Aug 08, 2011 5:09:32 pm PDT #19810 of 30001
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

I think that's an accurate assessment, Typo. The political equivalent of "freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose."

The posturing by the politicos is so rote and tone deaf:

"Those responsible for the violence and looting will be made to face the consequences of their actions. Many have been arrested and further arrests will be made.

"Londoners have made clear that there are no excuses for violence, and I call on all members of local communities to work constructively with the police to help them bring these criminals to justice."

This is just ridiculous. The vast majority of people doing looting will not be brought to justice. It's really mistaking a riot for simple crime. They're completely different beasties.


DavidS - Aug 08, 2011 5:13:08 pm PDT #19811 of 30001
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

Okay, here's a little confirmation on the social media angle:

The local chief superintendent, when she went away, actually handed over to a senior officer … and had two superintendents working on the borough constantly.

"She's now coming back because she is very committed to that borough."

He admitted there were too few officers in Tottenham on Saturday night, but blamed Twitter for fuelling looting and violence, saying: "Social media and other methods have been used to organise these levels of greed and criminality."


smonster - Aug 08, 2011 5:14:06 pm PDT #19812 of 30001
We won’t stop until everyone is gay.

If you're on the tenth floor, I guess it doesn't matter

Unless the toilet above you overflows.


DavidS - Aug 08, 2011 5:19:47 pm PDT #19813 of 30001
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

Ugh. The political stances will dictate the narrative going forward. Here's a commentator on the right:

This has nothing to do with a local gang member criminal who was shot while shooting at police, this is sadly just the typical sort of excuse adopted to try and add some shred of credibility to the actions of the unemployed lawless criminal low-lifes who, when they're not stealing — and now apparently looting — are swindling honest hard working people out of their taxes through the benefits system.

I really wish anybody could step away from their scripts for ten seconds and address the situation in a thoughtful and original and genuinely helpful way. But it will never happen. Never no how no way.


le nubian - Aug 08, 2011 5:21:01 pm PDT #19814 of 30001
"And to be clear, I am the hell. And the high water."

They want to make sure that they make no connection between the unrest in say, Greece, with what is happening in London.


Zenkitty - Aug 08, 2011 5:23:00 pm PDT #19815 of 30001
Every now and then, I think I might actually be a little odd.

Unless the toilet above you overflows.

That's where you need to check specifically what is and is not covered. Flooding from burst pipes or overflowing tubs and the like might be considered in a different category than flooding from The Nature into your home.

Once, our basement was flooded in a torrential rain, and we didn't have specific flood insurance. We were told that if the pipes had burst, we'd have been covered (with a strong hint that we should have lied about the source of the water).


DavidS - Aug 08, 2011 5:25:39 pm PDT #19816 of 30001
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

This is my favorite stupid statement so far, from Kit Malthouse, deputy mayor for policing in London:

He defended Boris Johnson's decision to stay on holiday during the crisis in the capital, saying:

"Should he be reacting to these criminal provocateurs in that way by coming back? I think that is kind of rewarding them.

Yeah. Like they're two year olds having a tantrum.

Money quote:

I think it is worth stressing that this is quite a small group of people within our community in London who have decided to perpetrate violence and who, frankly, are looking for stuff to nick.

"They're picking particular kinds of stores, whether it is because they want a new set of trainers or whatever it is.

::cues Run-DMC's "My Adidas"::