I don't fancy spending the next month trying to get librarian out of the carpet.

Spike ,'Chosen'


Natter 68: Bork Bork Bork  

Off-topic discussion. Wanna talk about corsets, duct tape, or physics? This is the place. Detailed discussion of any current-season TV must be whitefonted.


Jesse - Aug 06, 2011 5:10:34 am PDT #19600 of 30001
Sometimes I trip on how happy we could be.

The poor kid.


Juliebird - Aug 06, 2011 5:13:31 am PDT #19601 of 30001
I am the fly who dreams of the spider

Cashmere, thank you so much.

How do I talk to the mean girls if I'm only suspecting that the girl is autistic?


Cashmere - Aug 06, 2011 5:19:34 am PDT #19602 of 30001
Now tagless for your comfort.

No need to point anything out other than the fact that they're being mean little assholes. She's different--and that isn't justification for them to make fun of her. Tell them you won't tolerate it and follow through.


le nubian - Aug 06, 2011 5:23:10 am PDT #19603 of 30001
"And to be clear, I am the hell. And the high water."

She might be irritating, but I am certain there are things the other girls do that are irritating to others.


Stephanie - Aug 06, 2011 5:29:31 am PDT #19604 of 30001
Trust my rage

Juliebird, my thoughts about the situation were similar to Cash's. I think you need to establish that teasing or bullying is not permitted in this group and then enforce that, if you have the authority.

eta: I posted while you were posting, but I think you just tell them that teasing and bullying is not allowed. And if they do it, you take action. I'm not sure what your options are, but I think you have to first explain and then be prepared to back it up by restricting the fun stuff in some way.


Juliebird - Aug 06, 2011 5:39:43 am PDT #19605 of 30001
I am the fly who dreams of the spider

I still feel like a complete ass that apparently my mistake first thing that morning opened up the behind-the-scenes mocking and then I was off with another school group (like watching an alien species, David Attenbourough should have been narrating!) and didn't find out until the kids had left for the weekend.

I'll have to have a pow-wow with the other counselor and the education manager next week.

Thanks, Steph!

But, beyond the bullies, now I'm extra worried about how to interact with the girl.


beekaytee - Aug 06, 2011 5:41:29 am PDT #19606 of 30001
Compassionately intolerant

I completely agree about shutting down the bullying without making it about the bullying target.

Rationalizing that the bullies should stop because the target is deficient i.e. "You should stop hurting her because she doesn't understand/is different/whatever," gives power to the behavior rather than "bullying is never justified or acceptable, period."

As for the child. It is difficult to have much of an impact in such a brief acquaintance. However, the resiliency in childhood study done in Hawaii suggests that even one, brief relationship with an adult who believes in a child can make a huge difference. It certainly worked for me.

In this case, it may not apply if the child has a neurological limitation but the one thing that CAN help is to purge yourself of the personal agitation her behavior ignites.

When she asks the same question over and over, you can stop, calmly ask her if she remembers asking the question before, and does she remember the answer? She may not have the capacity to do so. If that is the case, she really isn't trying to annoy anyone. If she DOES have the capacity to remember and you get such an indication in her response, then, if she asks again, you can remind her that she asked that already and just move on.

Is there anyone in your group who gets on well with kids? It might be useful to ask that person to have a talk with her. If not, it may be that your only coping mechanism is to be as patient as possible and keep the mean girls in line.

If any good can come of this...and, of course, it is not your job to change these kids' lives...it may be in modeling a firm hand against the bullying. I completely see how you would be tempted to join them, but this may be your chance to actually help them.


beekaytee - Aug 06, 2011 5:43:37 am PDT #19607 of 30001
Compassionately intolerant

Total x-posting!


Stephanie - Aug 06, 2011 5:47:39 am PDT #19608 of 30001
Trust my rage

Oh, and I didn't say this, but I was totally thinking it:

As for the child. It is difficult to have much of an impact in such a brief acquaintance. However, the resiliency in childhood study done in Hawaii suggests that even one, brief relationship with an adult who believes in a child can make a huge difference. It certainly worked for me.

In this case, it may not apply if the child has a neurological limitation but the one thing that CAN help is to purge yourself of the personal agitation her behavior ignites.

One thought. I don't know if she actually does smell badly or if her pants really don't have belt loops, but my mom, a teacher, has given kids a belt (or maybe deodorant) in the past and told them something like "While you are here, you need this to be able to learn/do what you are supposed to be doing here. You can use it here and leave it here at the end of the day or take it home with you." If you feel comfortable, that's an option.


Juliebird - Aug 06, 2011 5:49:36 am PDT #19609 of 30001
I am the fly who dreams of the spider

thanks, bonny, that really helps.

I have so much newfound respect for educators after just one week. Even working with the little aliens, the intelligence and quick-thinking needed to deal with them while still giving a good experience is amazing to witness.

My fallback is to usually deal with things logically, but when someone asks me point blank in front of others why they still smell after taking a shower, I'm at a loss about how to not embarrass them, and not encourage bad showering practices.