Liese, they'll be retreating in your state:

Of course they are!

Oh, and look, they get cultural appropriation as well as entitlement! And uh...

A local Apache medicine man, Cranston Hoffman also confirmed the power of the site, with a very similar appraisal. He declared: “Here is where the Snake People live!”.

Yeah, that might not mean what you think it means, insofar as, awesome place of spiritual power, let's build our stuff there!

I totally got sucked down the rabbit hole of that website. Things that look probably okay: they're building green as much as they can, although I could probably have helped them with some of their cabin designs; in that small a space it's really going to matter. They definitely have people on there who have devoted some serious time and effort to their practice of faith. I have no doubt that it's legit from their point of view.

Things that look pretty hinky to me: cultural appropriation agogo. They apparently offered the Apaches back 100 of their acres when they bought it, but the Apaches refused, saying that no one can own the land. They appear to have interpreted this as permission & blessing. Oookaay. There is at least one person who appears to be leaving her husband for the three years. I can't get behind that. And there was some other stuff, but I am now tired out from the thinking of it.

I went looking through the blogs to try to find any people of color, and there were three; two Hispanic and one Asian. But on the whole yeah, it definitely looks like upper-middle class white people land.

And I was just thinking, well, at least it doesn't look like there will be crazy sweat lodge deaths, and then there was someone with a sweat lodge.

I dunno. I suppose I oughtn't to be so judgey judgey when my own life is pretty damn atypical for religious reasons. But I really don't get this one.

Now that you said that, Liese, I had to go back to the site and poke around more.

I wonder if they participants are going to blog the entire three years, and post photos, etc.

It seems kinda counter to the whole idea of escape from the world into one's self. I mean, I can totally see writing and keeping a journal, but blogging -- heck, internet access -- in and of itself seems counterintuitive.

The two things that pinged me on that site were a statement that the meditators had "exhausted all outer methods to fix the world" and the underlying assumption that the world will definitely benefit from this dedicated meditation by this small group. It's an assumption that I've run into as an assertion before, and I just can't really believe it. Which, weirdly, makes me want to give them more of the benefit of the doubt, because they do believe it and who am I to think that I am right and they are wrong. Which is just too big of a gulf for me, it's like once I grant that I don't know how to draw the line of how worthwhile the whole project is. My instinct is that it's the kind of thing people do because they think it sounds impressively spiritual more than because they really feel the need to do it, for whatever reason. But, whatever, I don't know their lives.

Eta: I'm not particularly service-oriented, but I do naturally gravitate towards mindfulness (or prayer or whatever) as part of ordinary life, ideally something that suffuses one's ordinary life, rather than something you have to escape from ordinary life to do . I think I see what you mean about the Franciscans and Benedictines, Kat

the underlying assumption that the world will definitely benefit from this dedicated meditation by this small group.

I ... have very unkind thoughts about that, the mildest being "Oh, aren't you all the special-ist, most precious, magical, spiritual snowflakes of ALL. Yes, you can save us!"

I try to be very open to everyone's spiritual beliefs. But I also feel that concrete action would be a lot more help to the world than three-year meditative retreats.

On the other hand maybe they are benefiting the world, in the sense that the world is better off if their smug sense of entitlement is as separated as possible from other people.

I read the site, and it does appear as though there will be no contact with the outside world. Including blogging.

-t, I agree with you. One of the things they were talking about is this 2000 year old tradition of teachers doing this. Well, goodness, there is still suffering in the world. Maybe UR DOIN IT WRONG. Facetious, yes, but only a little.

And then little things like "most communication is superficial" and "how can this be selfish when most people just watch TV for 4.5 hours a day" just struck me as...smug and righteous.

People can do whatever the heck they want to do with their lives, but some of this just struck me as holier-than-thou, "The biggest gift I can give the world is me, me, me."

I am sure there are many paths to peace and happiness, but it seems so arrogant to state that the best way you know to deal with the suffering of the world is to get away from it for 3 years and think real hard.

FWIW, I'm absolutely not denigrating meditation or a devout spiritual practice. And it's weird, because if I were reading about a bunch of Tibetan monks, or Benedictine nuns or what have you doing this, I'd be all, OK, whatever. (And yes, some of the retreatants are nuns. Two or three.)

I guess my innate nature values practical, hands-on approaches to life and problems. And they aren't, I think, harming anyone. There are worse ways to check out of life for 3 years. I am so clearly not cut out to be a Buddhist!

But I do think all that money could be spent on something that would be way more helpful, like food, potable water, medicine, establishing schools, seeding thing like Heifers Intl.

My god would be a cranky, genderless form in boots and overalls, saying things like "You have opposable thumbs and a brain; fix some shit and leave me alone for a while."

Three years of silence? Hells no. But I like liese's idea of IHOS!

I also love Meyer lemons, and lemon hd5.

I like my nose from the front, but nsm from the side. I generally hate my profile and prefer to believe Everyone sees me as I see myself, in the mirror.

My god would be a cranky, genderless form in boots and overalls, saying things like "You have opposable thumbs and a brain; fix some shit and leave me alone for a while."

This. Oh my yes, this, so much.

These people are like Anya driving with emphatic gestures. People! Stop waving and start doing.

Grace! Oh what fun! Can I offer you more vitamins, Kat?

I could see wanting a retreat for a few months, or even a few years, to recover from a long period of performing actual, helpful service. One of my organization's projects involves helping to rebuild Southern Sudan's health care system. If Khartoum ends up being the bag of dicks I fear they'll be and blows up the peace agreement, I know a project manager who'll be very tempted to sit in full lotus and chant "om" for a long while. (He probably won't though--he'll just work twice as hard on our Tanzania projects.)

I think a balance between Getting Stuff Done and taking care of yourself so you remember why you're doing and can continue to do can be hard to strike. And mistaking the latter for the former doesn't strike me as particularly useful. Retreat4peace seems to be leaning way hard on the our peace = world peace side of things. It's probably no worse than spending the time and money on hookers and blow, but sanctimony is a particularly obnoxious drug to be around. Kind of like a meth lab, only less explosive.

a statement that the meditators had "exhausted all outer methods to fix the world"

Yeah, I haven't clicked through, but this statement seems exceedingly unlikely.