Once again, I love the hivemind. CJ's foot is doing MUCH better. Epsom salts are the bestest.

Thanks y'all.

Also, I figured out what was bugging me about the ruling in that case with the school. The issue was coming up because different denominations have different definitions of "Jewish," and the question was whether it's fair for a school that's supposed to serve the entire Jewish community to use the definition from only one denomination, and thus reject kids who other denominations consider Jewish. But the test that they now have to use is not a test that has any basis in any denomination of Judaism. It's essentially based on a Christian conception of religion. A kid could qualify as Jewish under that policy who is not considered Jewish by any denomination. So the school is allowed to give preference to Jewish kids, but the decision about who is Jewish has been taken entirely out of the Jewish community.

Also, the mother has been a teacher at this school for years and is head of her department there.

What? Really? ...I just have a hard time seeing the point of all this, uh, attention to detail. Good thing I'm neither Orthodox nor have any desire to be!

I just have a hard time seeing the point of all this, uh, attention to detail. Good thing I'm neither Orthodox nor have any desire to be!

It's one of the most nit-picky decisions I've ever seen on this sort of question. One of the other families involved in the case is one where the mother converted in Israel and the Israeli rabbinate still recognizes her conversion as valid, but the London rabbis don't.

But the test that they now have to use is not a test that has any basis in any denomination of Judaism.

Except that in practice it is one that would be very hard for a non-Jew to meet. The problem really is that Judaism is both a religion and an ethnicity. The other problem is that Orthodox theologians are pricks about recognizing other denominations. In their heart of hearts I sometimes think the Orthodox want to say they are the only Jews, that the rest of us are not really Jews. But that would marginalize them. So they, say OK if your mothers mother's mother going far enough back was Orthodox, well even though these other denominations aren't completely Jewish since everybody in your maternal line was Jewish and never committed apostasy by renouncing Judaism or bowing to false idols, you are Jewish even though your practice is wrong. But since the practice is not really Jewish, conversion by your denominations are not real conversions. So basically they are saying that people like me are Jewish only by the skin of our teeth, and only the Orthodox are real Jews. And honestly I think it is only due to practical politics that the Orthodox establishment recognize us as Jewish. I think in their heart of hearts some of the people at the top would love to declare all Conservatives and Reform and Progressive and what have you apostate, and not really Jews. And normally I don't say anything about it because Nilly is Orthodox and a wonderful person, and I don't know if you are Orthodox or Convservative, but a loveable person, and I know a lot other wonderful Orthodox. But this whole thing of the Orthodox declaring all other denominations second class Jews, and succeeding in getting Israel to reserve certain religious powers only for the Orthodox is really hateful. And so when "discrimination" against the Orthodox is brought up over this issue, it triggers a long simmering rage. And I suspect I'm not the only secular or Reform or Conservative or Progressive Jew who feels that way.

-t, please tell your DH to stop saying dub-dub-dub. It's just not right.

I listened to someone else repeatedly say My ess-queue-ell and sequel server in the same sentences today. It's not just me.

I listened to someone else repeatedly say My ess-queue-ell and sequel server in the same sentences today.

Just like my dbas!

Bad night.

I'm sorry.

I'm not sure I agree about Orthodox views of other Jews (if I had to define myself by denomination, I'd say I'm Conservative, but I'm usually more comfortable at an independent minyan), but I don't think this is an issue of discrimination against the Orthodox. I read the decision of the lower court, and it quoted a Reform rabbi saying that the admissions policy of the school was way too narrow, but that it would be ridiculous to impose a test of Jewish practice, because that's not how Judaism has ever been defined by anyone.

What seems like a reasonable solution to me, and what several of the Reform and Liberal rabbis suggested, was saying that a kid is Jewish for the purposes of the school if there is some mainstream denomination that recognizes the kid as Jewish. The law says that the religious authorities have the right to decide who qualifies as a member of that religion. This started out as a fight about which religious authorities would have that right when it came to this school, but it ended up with the right to decide who is Jewish being taken away from the Jewish community altogether. The test that they now have to use looks a lot like the policies at various Christian schools, but looks nothing at all like anything that has ever been used by any Jewish denomination.