I just have a hard time seeing the point of all this, uh, attention to detail. Good thing I'm neither Orthodox nor have any desire to be!

It's one of the most nit-picky decisions I've ever seen on this sort of question. One of the other families involved in the case is one where the mother converted in Israel and the Israeli rabbinate still recognizes her conversion as valid, but the London rabbis don't.

But the test that they now have to use is not a test that has any basis in any denomination of Judaism.

Except that in practice it is one that would be very hard for a non-Jew to meet. The problem really is that Judaism is both a religion and an ethnicity. The other problem is that Orthodox theologians are pricks about recognizing other denominations. In their heart of hearts I sometimes think the Orthodox want to say they are the only Jews, that the rest of us are not really Jews. But that would marginalize them. So they, say OK if your mothers mother's mother going far enough back was Orthodox, well even though these other denominations aren't completely Jewish since everybody in your maternal line was Jewish and never committed apostasy by renouncing Judaism or bowing to false idols, you are Jewish even though your practice is wrong. But since the practice is not really Jewish, conversion by your denominations are not real conversions. So basically they are saying that people like me are Jewish only by the skin of our teeth, and only the Orthodox are real Jews. And honestly I think it is only due to practical politics that the Orthodox establishment recognize us as Jewish. I think in their heart of hearts some of the people at the top would love to declare all Conservatives and Reform and Progressive and what have you apostate, and not really Jews. And normally I don't say anything about it because Nilly is Orthodox and a wonderful person, and I don't know if you are Orthodox or Convservative, but a loveable person, and I know a lot other wonderful Orthodox. But this whole thing of the Orthodox declaring all other denominations second class Jews, and succeeding in getting Israel to reserve certain religious powers only for the Orthodox is really hateful. And so when "discrimination" against the Orthodox is brought up over this issue, it triggers a long simmering rage. And I suspect I'm not the only secular or Reform or Conservative or Progressive Jew who feels that way.

-t, please tell your DH to stop saying dub-dub-dub. It's just not right.

I listened to someone else repeatedly say My ess-queue-ell and sequel server in the same sentences today. It's not just me.

I listened to someone else repeatedly say My ess-queue-ell and sequel server in the same sentences today.

Just like my dbas!

Bad night.

I'm sorry.

I'm not sure I agree about Orthodox views of other Jews (if I had to define myself by denomination, I'd say I'm Conservative, but I'm usually more comfortable at an independent minyan), but I don't think this is an issue of discrimination against the Orthodox. I read the decision of the lower court, and it quoted a Reform rabbi saying that the admissions policy of the school was way too narrow, but that it would be ridiculous to impose a test of Jewish practice, because that's not how Judaism has ever been defined by anyone.

What seems like a reasonable solution to me, and what several of the Reform and Liberal rabbis suggested, was saying that a kid is Jewish for the purposes of the school if there is some mainstream denomination that recognizes the kid as Jewish. The law says that the religious authorities have the right to decide who qualifies as a member of that religion. This started out as a fight about which religious authorities would have that right when it came to this school, but it ended up with the right to decide who is Jewish being taken away from the Jewish community altogether. The test that they now have to use looks a lot like the policies at various Christian schools, but looks nothing at all like anything that has ever been used by any Jewish denomination.

The Reform rabbi quoted:

But that is an internal matter for the Jewish community. We would not want the law of the land to question the right of the OCR to define Jewish identity the way that it does. We do not think it is wise or right for the State to get involved. In any event, this has nothing to do with race or racism.

What would be absolutely ridiculous and unacceptable would be to require synagogue attendance or a defined level of religious practice …

We would be equally outraged – that is, equally with Orthodox Judaism – if a 'Christian' model of 'Church' membership and attendance were imposed. We would advise very strongly against government or legal intervention in the admissions criteria at JFS – even though our view of the needs of the Jewish world and our outlook on the best strategy to maintain and develop Jewish life is very different. In our view, the OCR policy with regard to admission to JFS is strategically wrong, 'politically' motivated, not in the interests either of the community or the family concerned and unjust. But we would not want the courts or the government to intervene or adjudicate, certainly not on grounds of racial discrimination.

But again it is only policy for the schools, which have always admitted non-Jews if there is room. It is not policy for synagogues.

But it's a Jewish school, and the law says that the decision about who qualifies as Jewish should be made by a Jewish religious authority. I think the school should have accepted these kids as Jewish, because the Liberal and Reform and Masorti movements accept them as Jewish, and a school that's supposed to be for the Jewish community should actually be for the Jewish community and not just for the Orthodox. But that's exactly why I don't like this decision -- it's not just taking it out of the hands of the Orthodox, it's taking it out of the hands of the Jewish community entirely.