Big points to Time for this headline:

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We had an argument last night about tips. We went to dinner with a group of people (there were 11 of us, and we arrived well after everyone else -- in fact, everyone else had already ordered and gotten their food).

We ordered a pizza. The waitress at this place (who was the ONLY waitress), despite there being only 1 other table, was conspicuously absent for a good 25 minutes. Eventually she shows up, looks at our lack of food, and says, "Oh, yeah. The kitchen ran out of pizza dough and had to make more. Your pizza will be ready soon." I asked the waitress, "Why didn't you let us know right away that the kitchen was out of dough? We could have ordered something else that would have gotten out sooner." Waitress gives me a dull-eyed stare and asks, "You want to order something else NOW?" I asked, "Would it get out faster than the pizza?" She said no. I said we'd wait for the pizza then.

So 40 minutes after ordering, we finally got our pizza. When it came time to pay, I left a 15% tip. I really wanted to leave less, but I couldn't do it. The Boy thought I was rude for tipping only 15%, and it wasn't the server's fault the kitchen was out of dough. I said that the waitress should have told us right away that the kitchen was out of dough (honestly, I don't even know if that's true -- she was literally nowhere to be seen for 25 minutes, and could easily have just forgotten to put our order in and made up the dough story to cover her ass), so we could have ordered something else. Who thinks it's okay for a server to not tell her customers that the kitchen is out of something, and then disappear for 25 minutes?

There's a lot of fireworks going on tonight. Usually the big displays aren't till the Friday after the 5th, i.e. tomorrow.

I always find it amusing that we celebrate a failed attempt at a revolution, where other countries celebrate successful ones. "Hurrah! We're still living in a monarchy, have no bill of rights, and don't directly elect our prime minister! Fireworks and burning effigies of evil Catholics all round!"

According to Modern Manners Guy, sending a message by your tip doesn't work, so you should tip whatever you tip and then if there's something bad (or good) you should speak to the server and/or manager.

Teppy, I think she was lucky to get 15%.

Steph, I had a similar experience at breakfast a couple weeks ago at a hotel restaurant. I arrived after the others had ordered, and it took forever—FOREVER—for someone to notice that I was new and needed to order food (I started waving my menu in the air at one point), it took forever for the waitress to bring me my omelette—without the salsa I had requested—and then she never brought my salsa. I think I left a 10% tip.

According to Modern Manners Guy, sending a message by your tip doesn't work, so you should tip whatever you tip and then if there's something bad (or good) you should speak to the server and/or manager.

But that requires talking and being assertive! I always feel like a dick if I complain about service.

The last time that happened to me, Tep, I just up and left the restaurant. (Easier when it's just 2 people than 11, of course, but it was absurd - the waitress left us alone for half an hour and then came back and said "Oh.....the kitchen forgot to make your food. I'll go put your order in again now." We told her not to bother, and we left.)

sending a message by your tip doesn't work, so you should tip whatever you tip

There comes a point where I just don't want them to have my money. I can't distance myself from the idea of the tip as performance-related earnings. I've tipped a penny before, and I'll do it again if I get that bad service.

I generally tip 20%. I will tip less (down to 15%) for various issues (inattentiveness, wrong orders, etc.) If I feel that it was so bad as not to tip 15%, then I talk to the manager.

It's hard for me, because a lot of servers think that black people don't tip, so might give shitty service because they think they're not going to get a good tip, then I don't tip well because the service was shitty, thereby reaffirming their original belief, etc. etc. Which I why I talk to the manager if there's a problem.

Wait a sec, so when I tip 20%, only 2% goes to the waitress (assuming it's a tip-pooling establishment)? And more goes to the busser? That's insane! It's the waitstaff that has to put up with the customer b.s.

I think the rationale is that your waitress also gets 2% of the sales at the tables she doesn't work, as well.

I'm not sure it makes sense. One incompetent drags down everybody's income.