With the health discussion (I'm late on this I know) there is definitely a virtue/vice when it comes to weight and weight related issues. That's why all kinds of ads and recipes for "guiltless" whatever.

You look at celebrities - Jessica Simpson gains about 10 lbs and it's on the news. There's a "Scandal" because a picture of Kim Kardashian is run untouched and it shows her with cellulite. Then the retouched picture was ran , not only was the cellulite gone, she was slimmed down (and her skin tone was lightened, but that's another issue). And she had to defend that.

John McCain's daugther as been under attack for her weight because she's not a stick and it's another weapon that people can use against her.

Beyonce gained some weight to play Etta James, but she was still far skinnier than Etta James actually was. It was a a big deal she gained that weight, she was brave. And of course she shed it. There's no way I think anyone involved with the movie would want Beyonce to actually look like Etta. And if Beyonce gained all that weight?

Look at all tabliod rags talking about "worst beach bodies."

Then read magazine articles , or the weekly people feature about people who have lost weight. There's always talk about "I'm so ashamed I let myself get that big" or "I can't believe I did that to myself".

Women (and more and more men) risk their health with fad diets or semi starvation so they won't be ashamed of the way they look. So they won't be considered lazy or slobs.

I hear it and read it all the time, fat people are slobs, they are lazy, they have no self control, they are disgusting. And that is directed at me and people like me. It becomes personal. If you are like me (and Steph and whoever else) you have to fight against what that does to your self image and self worth.

It becomes so personal and so painful.

Edit sorry that this kinda turned into a rant.

That was an excellent rant. Excellent.

I stlll fight against those self worth issues every. damned. day.

The other part that I think that might be hard to understand if you are not in the situation is that women in offices talk about eating, their weights and their diets ad nauseum. I think a good seventy five percent of chit chat at my office involves this.

Grown women berating themselves for having cake and talking about how bad they are being or how they didn't eat all day in prep for it. Talkingabout how disgusting they are for allowing themselves to become a size six or eight. Showing either their "flab" and pinching it so we can see how "disgusting" they are or showing how their clothes are hanging off their bodies but they won't buy new ones until they are the desired size. Mocking themselves by saying they are an impossibly huge size, which happens to be smaller than my size.

And these are just examples from the last month. This is what I have seen getting worse and worse my whole working life. And I am so mad; because I used to do it. Because when you are paying attention so closely to everything you eat and drink, that is all you can think about, the only way to keep yourself on the straight and narrow.

Personally; I like to eat meals; with vegetables and a main dish and some good taste. I need food for energy and i get weird and light headed and weepy if I only eat a 400 calorie lunch. I am Italian and German and almost everyone in my family is fat. We are of hearty peasent stock where I can only imagine that the ability to keep on weight was good and allowed us to live and prosper. We have excellent blood pressure and cholesterol to a one, mental health issues, and tend to die of cancer and not heart disease. My doctor is so flabbergasted by my good health that he suggests eating like a diabetic Even though I have no signs that this is a problem.

And, I guess that is my rant...

I'm still not seeing how going to the gym and then riding the bus home automatically makes someone an asshole who hates fat people. If I whack you with my bag, I'm an asshole whether it's a gym bag or a Target bag or a briefcase. My personal views on health have nothing to do with it.

And in a way, I come from the opposite end of the spectrum-- I'm not designed to be overweight. And I've been there. I weighed, at my heaviest, 250lbs on a 5'2" frame and looked and more importantly, felt all wrong. Much more than 150lbs, actually, and I start feeling bad, physically. But having been both extremely overweight and extremely underweight (as a kid, and again, as a young adult), I would never dream to presume that someone's unhealthy simply because they're overweight. Even with me, overweight (for me) that I am right now, my blood pressure is still good, my heartrate is excellent, oxygen levels are at 100%-- only thing "wrong" with me was that my blood levels were at 5.5 (normal is 12/13) presumably because of the fibroids and subsequently, I had no energy, no matter what I ate or how I exercised or anything.

There are just too many factors that go into a person's physical makeup for society to judge on one thing only.

Which... I guess is my rant. *g*

Don't get me started on what the ADA considers the best diabetic diet... 3-5 servings of carbs every meal. If I stick to their plan I would be eating more carbs each day than I have ever eaten all my life.

I haven't drunk sugared soda for 30 years, I have always eaten a variety of fruits and vegetables and protean foods. Since becoming diabetic I have had to eat more starches and carbs than ever to help regulate my insulin.

Sometimes I feel the ADA wants me to manage my diabetes like someone sitting an a boat with a motor going full blast and trying to navigate by alternating a single oar as a rudder on one side or another, hoping to make forward progress without capsizing.

I'm still not seeing how going to the gym and then riding the bus home automatically makes someone an asshole who hates fat people.

Did somebody say it did? I think I missed that, if so.

I'm still not seeing how going to the gym and then riding the bus home automatically makes someone an asshole who hates fat people. If I whack you with my bag, I'm an asshole whether it's a gym bag or a Target bag or a briefcase. My personal views on health have nothing to do with it.

Yeah, this bothers me as well.

Which... I guess is my rant. *g*

Pfft. Far too reasonable to be a rant.

There are just too many factors that go into a person's physical makeup for society to judge on one thing only.

Yes, but our culture will anyway. I don't see our culture's pathological obsession with dieting and weight to be the same thing as "health."

Healthiness is well-being, and fitness and eating sensibly and not being sedentary. It's not the same thing as fat-bias.

And, as Jessica notes, having a gym bag doesn't make you douche-nozzle.

The point of a virtue is not to judge people who fail that standard, but to have a standard to reach for. We articulate our values so we can be mindful of them.

I don't see a single problem with saying: "I should do things that promote my health. It is good to do those things."

That doesn't equal: "I should despise and mock people who do unhealthy things."

Because advocating education doesn't mean you hate people who are uneducated. Unless you're just an asshole. Which is separate from the whole pro-education agenda.

The conversation started here:

Toddson "Spike's Bitches 44: It's about the rules having changed." Apr 10, 2009 9:16:52 am PDT

So to answer the original question, no, I don't think there's a connection between health nuts and assholes except that some people are both. People with overinflated senses of entitlement will apply it to just about anything.