Anybody know how far I have to read back in Natter to see whose penis will kill Steph?

This alone is COMMA-worthy.

Is there a malady in which one's toes get uncomfortably hot? A couple years ago that would have sounded wonderful to me, having suffered decades of really cold toes. It's uncomfortable but not at all painful. And really the striking thing is how big a change it is from my usual.

I'm reading about Rosemary Kennedy. I'm actually kind of surprised that the internet is yielding relatively few conspiracy theories about her -- there's dispute about how severe her mental disability was before the lobotomy (consensus seems to be that it was relatively mild -- she could read and write and do arithmetic, kept a diary, and went to parties and dances and stuff like that), and several claims that the reason her father brought her for the lobotomy was actually that she was mentally ill (which seems likely), but nowhere near the sort of tinfoil hat theories that I would have expected. Pretty much everyone talking about it is quoting the same three or four articles.

My understanding, Hil, was that her mental disability was definitely mild, but because the family was so high achieving and Mama Rose felt simply that if they "pushed" Rosemary she'd be fine, that Rosemary experienced an escalating sense of frustration that led to rage-filled outbursts that became more violent. Subsequently, her behavior became more erratic. (I'm remembering a lot of this from the Doris Kearns Goodwin book, The Fitzgeralds and the Kennedys and may have forgotten some key things, so I apologize.)

So Papa Joe made the executive decision to take her for the lobotomy, having been reassured that it would help with the rages, but leave her otherwise intact.

Didn't exactly work so well.

Yeah, that's basically what I knew. I was googling for more details, but there don't seem to be very many out there. One person claiming that she wasn't ever disabled at all, and that the rages were actually signs of mental illness, and Joe made up the story about retardation because that was more acceptable.

I also read a few excerpts from her teenage diaries, which were fairly boring. She went to parties, went to movies, went to dress fittings. Once met President Roosevelt. Went to a racetrack with one of her sisters and bet $1.50 on a horse. There are also a few "experts" trying to estimate her IQ, which seems rather ridiculous. (Most of the estimates are saying somewhere between 75 and 90.)

Ooof. Trying to find some details about Rosemary's childhood, I found the internet crazy. Someone wants to know why Edward M. Kennedy goes by the alias Ted Kennedy, speculates that Ted sexually abused Rosemary throughout her childhood (he's 14 years younger than her, and he was 9 when she was institutionalized), and claims that Ted got JFK to join NAMBLA.

One person claiming that she wasn't ever disabled at all, and that the rages were actually signs of mental illness, and Joe made up the story about retardation because that was more acceptable.

In old photos she sort of looks, well, slow...

I'd heard the Joe was abusing her theory. Try and keep your baseless slander straight, people.

In old photos she sort of looks, well, slow...

Most of what I'm reading says that, as a child and teenager, she was a bit below average and in a family where every child was expected to excel. Also sweet and good-natured and in a family where the kids were supposed to be ruthlessly competitive. Eunice wrote that they'd have sailing races at Hyannis, and she and Rosemary would partner in a two-man boat, and that she would be screaming directions at Rosemary and Rosemary would take a bit too long to react, and then when their father asked how they did and Eunice said they came in third, he would yell at them for not winning.

However imperfectly they treated Rosemary, the fact that they publicly acknowledged her existence made it less shameful for other families to acknowledge their own developmentally disabled children - making it less the done thing to simply send them away to institutions where they would be badly raised by strangers.

However imperfectly they treated Rosemary, the fact that they publicly acknowledged her existence made it less shameful for other families to acknowledge their own developmentally disabled children - making it less the done thing to simply send them away to institutions where they would be badly raised by strangers.

Very much yes. I read the article that Eunice wrote in the Saturday Evening Post, and in that writing she's working really hard just to convince people that the developmentally disabled can be taught to do things like mow lawns. The conditions at the institutions she describes are horrible. She also worked to put a lot of money and people toward research.

(Although it did take them a while to acknowledge her publicly. After she was institutionalized, they explained her disappearance by saying that she'd gone to be a teacher, or joined a convent, or a few other stories, until 1962, after a few reporters had found out the truth.)