I'm sorry, dad. You know I would never have tried to save River's life if I had known there was a dinner party at risk.

Simon ,'Safe'


Spike's Bitches 44: It's about the rules having changed.  

[NAFDA] Spike-centric discussion. Lusty, lewd (only occasionally crude), risqué (and frisqué), bawdy (Oh, lawdy!), flirty ('cuz we're purty), raunchy talk inside. Caveat lector.


Aims - Jun 26, 2009 11:36:38 am PDT #14225 of 30000
Shit's all sorts of different now.

You don't pay $25 million to get rid of a nuisance suit.

I think that in some instances, people do. Especially in instances of cases that involve crimes/actions that are particularly heinous. In the interview he did with Lisa Marie and Diane Sawyer he said that his attorneys told him, "We can't guarantee that you will be acquitted. Pay them and it goes away." That sounds very plausible to me. And it's easy to make stories sound consistent both when it has happened and when adults are coaching kids. I look at the cases in the 80's where so many people were arrested and jailed and their lives ruined because of false accusations and state-based witch hunts for pedophiles and child molesters.


Connie Neil - Jun 26, 2009 11:38:00 am PDT #14226 of 30000
brillig

I look at the cases in the 80's where so many people were arrested and jailed and their lives ruined because of false accusations and state-based witch hunts for pedophiles and child molesters.

Wrod. Witness the "Satanists are killing our babies!" hysteria that pops up every now and then, and the FBI has done multiple studies to show it never happened.


Glamcookie - Jun 26, 2009 11:41:04 am PDT #14227 of 30000
I know my own heart and understand my fellow man. But I am made unlike anyone I have ever met. I dare to say I am like no one in the whole world. - Anne Lister

I think it's possible that he molested children, but since it's never been proven, I wouldn't say he did beyond a reasonable doubt. Weird behavior? Sure. Would I let my kid spend the night at his home? Hell no. But I sure don't feel comfortable saying he was a molester. When a family takes money rather than taking it to court (and possibly saving other children if the person is a molester), you have to wonder a bit about their intentions.

A former co-worker of mine (Sue) had a daughter with leukemia who met Michael Jackson and it was a highlight of her (and my co-worker's) life. Sue had nothing but nice things to say about her experience with him. They were affiliated with the March of Dimes and MJ met with tons of terminally ill kids of multiple ages and both sexes. I think in many cases his heart was in the right place with regard to children. (Sue's daughter died at 13, BTW. So sad.)


Gudanov - Jun 26, 2009 11:46:05 am PDT #14228 of 30000
Coding and Sleeping

Not weighing in on MJ, I don't know enough about it.

I look at the cases in the 80's where so many people

Wasn't the 80's the time of the recovered memories stuff?

Memory is so interesting. I know that it has been shown time and time again that human memory is very unreliable. It makes me wonder how many things in my life I remember might not have really happened or unfolded differently that I remember them doing.


DavidS - Jun 26, 2009 11:46:10 am PDT #14229 of 30000
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

Okay one last excerpt from the book because (a) it notes a separate payment and (b) it addresses why more did not come to light:

By April 1996, even more money would be paid out to silence the allegations of another young boy who had spent time with Michael Jackson. Jackson's former maid, Blanca Francia and her son, Jason, would receive $2.1 million. It was a payout that was kept under the public radar for years.

Law enforcement officials confirmed that Jason had given the Santa Barbara Sheriff's Department and audiotaped statement in early 1994 that alleged Jackson had fondled the boy -- over his clothes. Blanca could have pursued criminal charges if she wanted. She knew, having worked for Michael Jackson for so many years, that taking her former boss to court and having her child testify against him would turn their lives upside down. It was easier for all concerned to take the money and not look back.


Hil R. - Jun 26, 2009 11:46:18 am PDT #14230 of 30000
Sometimes I think I might just move up to Vermont, open a bookstore or a vegan restaurant. Adam Schlesinger, z''l

I think it's possible that he molested children, but since it's never been proven, I wouldn't say he did beyond a reasonable doubt. Weird behavior? Sure. Would I let my kid spend the night at his home? Hell no. But I sure don't feel comfortable saying he was a molester.

Yeah, this is where I am, too. We don't know enough to say for sure that he ever molested any child. But his behavior around children was weird and inappropriate enough that I would not have let any child that I had say over spend time alone with him.


DavidS - Jun 26, 2009 11:47:27 am PDT #14231 of 30000
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

I'll also note that none of MJ's accusors had recovered memories. They were all still children, not people recalling it later by the discredited therapeutic method of guided imagery (which actually creates false memories).


Polter-Cow - Jun 26, 2009 11:48:44 am PDT #14232 of 30000
What else besides ramen can you scoop? YOU CAN SCOOP THIS WORLD FROM DARKNESS!

It makes me wonder how many things in my life I remember might not have really happened or unfolded differently that I remember them doing.

Yeah, a friend of mine and I were talking about this once. She was talking about a dinner we had gone to, and I had no recollection of it. But then I went and found an old diary post, and sure enough, there it was. But even though I knew it happened and I was there, I couldn't really remember it. So she wondered whether that really counted.


DavidS - Jun 26, 2009 11:48:57 am PDT #14233 of 30000
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

We don't know enough to say for sure that he ever molested any child.

You know what? We do have enough information on that point. It wasn't proved in court because he paid off the best case with $25 million. But by journalistic standards of what is verifiable? There's plenty of corroborating evidence.


Hil R. - Jun 26, 2009 11:51:35 am PDT #14234 of 30000
Sometimes I think I might just move up to Vermont, open a bookstore or a vegan restaurant. Adam Schlesinger, z''l

Wasn't the 80's the time of the recovered memories stuff?

Recovered memories and also planted memories. It's been demonstrated pretty often that, with kids under about 5 or so, if you ask them "Did X happen to you?" and they say no the first time, and then a little later you go back and ask again, once you do it enough times, the kid will not only say "Yes," but will actually believe that it did happen and be able to describe in detail how it happened.

(The study I remember seeing on this was, once a week, a researcher would ask each kid, "Did you ever get your hand caught in a mousetrap?" First week, kids say no. By the third week, kids say "I don't know." By the fifth week or so, kids were pretty much all answering "Yes," and within another few weeks telling about how it happened in the basement and hurt a lot and they yelled and daddy came running downstairs and mommy put a bandage on it and all kinds of stuff like that.)