David-- you are an excellent gift giver because you know people really well and are quite observant and insightful. However, some people are just not good gift givers, and they really want the list because it stresses them out to think of something,

My best presents come from my friend's brother and they are always really small but always something I really like-- Buffy or Hello Kitty-- that is also unusual. One year I got this lovely book of Hello Kitty poems from around the world, and another year a Japanese anime which he feels is a lot like Buffy, another year Hello Kitty Japanese candies. One year I got a Sam Gamgee action figure, complete with a bundle of pots! He is very frugal and I doubt his gifts ever have cost more than $10, but it is always so much fun and a little unexpected every year.

On the other hand, I just hate to see my mother stress out about my present, put a lot of energy and a lot of money into it, and almost always come up with something that is so alien to my taste that it shocks me how little she knows me. My other relatives I only see at Christmas and Thanksgiving, and they do better than she does, with less stress, it seems. But then she won't let me tell her what I want!! It is very frustrating!

I guess the ability to find a suitable gift for someone doesn't imply love, necessarily, as much as showing whether or not a person knows their loved ones well.

I get a lot of clothes from my Sister's for Xmas, that show they try real hard, and they're close to what I'll wear, but not something I will actually wear. I used to just accept them, wear them once, and put them in the giveaway pile, but now I am more honest about it.

It's not that I feel that people should read my mind, but there truly is nothing like getting a present that is a) unasked for, b) given by a loved one, c) something that clearly shows they thought about you and who you are and what you love.

The only thing better is giving a present like that.

Because I'm starting to feel like my family is a bunch of shitheels for doing Christmas lists. Like we're all grabby-hands and utterly noncreative, neither of which is true.

I don't think so, but personally, I think the fun of things like Christmas is spending time thinking about the person and figuring out what they might really like. And the triumph you feel when you know it's the most perfect thing you could have come up with and they love it.

Also, my dad used to ask for a list and I always made a really long one because I like the surprise of not knowing what I'm getting. I also make a list for my brother-in-law. Neither of these upsets me. But my fondest memories are generally things I didn't ask for.

Of course, I delight with presents and am pretty easy to please. I would never dream of exchanging something I didn't like that someone had picked out for me. My sister had a tendency to pick out very expensive things I might not choose for myself, but I'm grateful to receive them.

And a follow-up question for the people who don't like being asked what they want for a present: how do you feel about monetary gifts?

Extremely negative. But I was raised that Christmas (which is basically the only time we got presents from our parents) was a time for fun things you didn't need. So we never even got clothes, because that was something you "needed" as Jesse pointed out. So money makes no sense to me.

We only got money when my Dad needed to make up the difference between kids. (My Dad usually blew his entire December paycheck on Christmas, but he had a thing about spending the exact same amount on each child).

I don't know if it's true that it's the thought that counts, but with list giving it feels like it's the thing that counts.

Very much this. I prefer gifts to be a personal exchange between the giver and receiver.

So do you ask them for a list?

The response would be, "Oh, you don't have to get us anything."

Family/friend dynamics differ. I didn't see any judgements about what is or isn't heartfelt.

David-- you are an excellent gift giver because you know people really well and are quite observant and insightful. However, some people are just not good gift givers, and they really want the list because it stresses them out to think of something,

It's not like I'm offended by the lists. And I don't want to stress anybody out. But it's just alien to the act of gift giving to me.

I think the problem is compounded by some false notions of intimacy in our culture. I think that back in the day, giving a really thoughtful gift was probably limited to just your immediate family or closest friends. And it wasn't hard to know what they'd like. But now there's this (market driven, advertising enforced) notion that everybody in your life is superspecial and you should know what your cousin's girlfriend will want at the big xmas gathering.

But in reality, not everybody in your life is superspecial. They're necessarily tangential.

In my mind this is vaguely linked with the current cultural affliction with superlative book titles. "The Greatest Game Ever Played" - a title on something like four different sports books (about four different games in four different sports). It's not enough for something to be interesting, it has to be The Most, The Best, The Ultimate. Winning Silver is failure - you have to win Gold!

there truly is nothing like getting a present that is a) unasked for, b) given by a loved one, c) something that clearly shows they thought about you and who you are and what you love.

And this is where the performance anxiety comes from. I've actually stopped giving my best friends gifts--I just trust that they know I love them 24/7 and not to expect anything birthday/Christmas/Hannukah other than my best wishes.

I think it works out.

My family specifies gift ideas. The giver often indicates to the giftee the rough dollar amount, and the giftee specifies the gift, down to the model number. One year we were so tied up in it we all just bought our own thing and didn't actually exchange anything! All the dollar amounts were the same, so we just all got what we wanted.

And since we're long distance from our family (used to be Hawaii, Africa, Arizona) we often just get the money specified for the item.

The SO's family never ever does this, and has a family member legendary for giving age-inappropriate random items, like the year she gave yoda hand puppets to all the cousins. However, my mother-in-law has this weird thing where she always buys me clothing, and it's always from this completely conventional place, but she manages to find the one perfect item that fits great and I really will wear. Dunno how she does it, but it's every time.

I will note that the circle of friends I had when I first moved to San Francisco had an excellent way of dealing with gift giving for birthdays. Which is that you were taken out to dinner to spend time with that person. Or they made you a meal (there were a lot of good cooks in this group). And since there were five or six people in the group close enough to you to do that, then you'd wind up having five or six nice meals with cool friends. And it stretched out your birthday, so you'd have something like a birthday week.

I like lists. (in fact, this conversation prompted me to go to Amazon, add a crapload of stuff onto my wishlist and then organize it into 3 separate lists.)

Sometimes I will see the perfect thing, grab it way ahead of the gift giving occasion, and if I'm lucky, will actually remember I got it by the time the birthday/Christmas/whatever comes around.

I like lists also because I don't know if the thing I got the person (assuming it was heartfelt and inspired or whatever) is a) useful to the person (I am pretty sick of STUFF in my house, and I know that others may not share this, but it makes me a hypocrite) b) something they already have.

Tom and I don't exchange presents, really. I got him something for Christmas last year because it was something I really wanted to get him and there was a reason for it. I told him about it and told him not to worry about getting me anything (he didn't, which was fine). Usually for our birthdays we'll spend whatever money we would have spent for presents on a nice dinner out, which is something that is generally hard for us to justify so it's something we enjoy and a treat.

The most fun I have with gift giving is with the nieces and nephews. Kids are a lot more fun to buy stuff for. I usually ask the parent about general interests or themes, and then I'll go with that.

If I give you a list, it doesn't mean "Here, get me that," Mostly, I use the list as a refresher, like "Hi. Remember me?" (I probably wouldn't have to give it to Hec. Hec knows me better than most of the family members that get the list.) Sometimes, I hate that my dad doesn't even attempt to buy even 1 present. Sometimes the Wad o. cash has stripperesque "Buy yourself something pretty," connotations, but our relationship is...unhealthy.)