Herzog is kind of notorious for believing that nature is out to kill you

Yeah, there are numerous sequences in the film where Treadwell is waxing lyrical about how wonderful bears are and how only he understands them and how when you look into a bear's eyes you see how kind and good and gentle they are, which Herzog intercuts with close-ups of bears looking mean and predatory while his own VO narration says something to the effect of "Bears are godless killing machines."

I don't necessarily think he was self-righteous. he never expected to change anyone's minds about the way they lived their life. he just did things the way he wanted to do them.

I do agree about the heedless part though. he seemed pretty oblivious to the affect he had on others.

Self-absorbed may be a better description, though we usually think of that in the context of someone also being shallow and vapid, which he plainly was not. I never got a clear sense of whether he was so much a free spirit that it never occurred to him that vanishing from people's lives would be hurtful, or if he understood it and just didn't care at all.

I would have like Into the Wild to touch on the fact that there was a hand-operated tram 1/4 mile away from where MacCandless tried to cross the swollen river. Or that if he had a MAP of the area, he could have walked out of there.

I think the film glosses over his heedless, reckless behavior. I don't think he was self-righteous, but he was definitely naive.

which Herzog intercuts with close-ups of bears looking mean and predatory while his own VO narration says something to the effect of "Bears are godless killing machines."

Ha! It's like the scene in the Simpsons where we see Homer's pet lobster from Homer's point of view (The Little Mermaid lobster) and Marge's (real lobster).

Haven't seen either movie yet, so I can't really comment.

S wants to see Into the Wild because she's a big Krakauer fan (she's reading Under the Banner of Heaven right now). I want to see it because I like Penn as a director.

We both want to see Grizzly Man because we're both Herzog fans.

Herzog intercuts with close-ups of bears looking mean and predatory while his own VO narration says something to the effect of "Bears are godless killing machines."

So, Herzog and Stephen Colbert, separated at birth?

Ah, Herzog. So brilliant. So crazy.

I'm still sorry I missed Rescue Dawn while it was in theaters. And I really must watch my DVD of Aguirre.

So, Herzog and Stephen Colbert, separated at birth?

Exactly.

But there's no implication in the movie that Treadwell is admirable. Herzog is kind of notorious for believing that nature is out to kill you, and I think you leave the film pitying Treadwell, but not feeling like you should like him.

That's not what I said. I don't particularly like Treadwell (I mean, can you imagine spending any time with the guy?) and definitely don't admire him, but I found his story compelling, just as I found Herzog's way of presenting the story compelling. I just don't think he was particularly selfish or stupid, either. I think I used the word "delusional."

Or are you contrasting Treadwell with the guy in Into The Wild. Is he supposed to be admirable? I guess I'm not sure how we got from A to B.

I think Herzog believes that nature is indifferent to human specialness. We're just another animal to the universe. But I also think Herzog has a deeply humanist belief in the importance of mutual kindness and respect, and that he loves humanity for being crazily possessed by our dreams.

I am dumbfounded by the staggering number of people who believe that nature/God/the Universe agrees with their specialness. EVRYTHING IS TRYING TO KILL YOU, PEOPLE! HERZOG IS RIGHT! ASSCAPS!!!