Here's my question when it comes to defining Art, and one that comes up pretty often on the message boards I frequent related to Broadway shows. I think very similar questions can be raised about movies.
Who, or what, determines whether a product made by multiple craft-makers is art? Is it determined by the screenplay/book, the score (if a musical), the sets, the costumes, the choreography, the blocking, the cinematography, the editing, the sound design... what?
In the theatrical community this debate is especially common. Consider a musical by Sondheim -
Into the Woods,
say, for the sake of argument. Most people think Sondheim is the premier artist of 20th century American musical theater, a statement I can often agree with, and almost all of the semi-pretentious theater geeks I know STILL complain that
Phantom
beat
Into the Woods
for the Best Musical Tony in 1988. It was undeniably art, as my PBS DVD bears out each time I watch it, and Sondheim always gets the credit for that.
But not every production of Into the Woods is great art. It's one of the most commonly performed shows in high school theater groups, for example, which are, by their very nature, typically fairly bad. And even the Broadway revival a few years ago, according to most reviewers, was stagnant, boring, and unappealing. In the wrong hands,
Into the Woods
is not great art.
Then take something like
The Lion King,
often seethed against as the king of Broadway's hated commercialization. The biggest theater geeks will declare its music simplistic, it's book insipid and unoriginal, and declare its continued success to be evidence that in theater as in film, popularity and quality are antithetical. But is The Lion King art? They would say no. I say that ignores the perfect direction and costume design involved.
What variables matter?
(As an aside, I love Urinetown, but the production I saw wasn't art simply because the lead character was TERRIBLE, so I couldn't get into it. Yet another variable.)
Gris,
this is my opinion (and with this and $2 you can get a doughnut) - but I think that in productions (movies, theater, etc.) - each of the parts can be evaluated independently and together as art. I've seen people give wonderful performances in bad productions and bad productions that bring everybody down.
I also think that sometimes really bad things transcend into art. But this is rare.
Yeah, I have Gris' problem too when trying to define theater, film, TV and other collaborative efforts as art. Something primarily created by one or two people is a little easier to define as art, though I also agree with bon bon that the line between art and craft is fuzzy at best, and possibly even nonexistent.
I guess collaborative efforts are also art (and craft), it's just much more difficult to define who the artist is. As le nub points out, you almost have to address both the individual contributions and the effort as a whole. And the combinations there are endless. There are countless examples of how a single contribution can elevate or sink an entire project, how a true ensemble can overcome poor source material or seemingly insurmountable obstacles to achieve the sublime, and how a collection of individually stellar artists wind up turning out complete drek.
I have watched every ep of In Treatment on HBO and while I think it is good tv, and solid craftmanship, the episodes with Paul and Sophie are ART. They are beautiful and stirring and just marvelous. I would likely say the same thing about Paul and Alex and Paul & Gina (w/ or w/o Kate).
The other permutations are good, but I am not sure they CONSISTENTLY reach the level of ART. Some of the reason for that are actors' choices, writing - and perhaps directing (and note: because of the premise of the show, the sets don't vary, so you can't blame them), but damn if you can't see the value of good acting and directing in an enclosed environment...
Beyonce is playing Etta James?
WTF?
Bad call.
I can't decide if this is better suited to this thread or Other Media, but my husband is friggin' hilarious. (Not an April Fool's prank, I promise.)
Put it in both Jess. That is a riot!
Jess, that is HYSTERICAL!!!
