Oh my god. What can it be? We're all doomed! Who's flying this thing!? Oh right, that would be me. Back to work.

Wash ,'Bushwhacked'


All Ogle, No Cash -- It's Not Just Annoying, It's Un-American

Discussion of episodes currently airing in Un-American locations (anything that's aired in Australia is fair game), as well as anything else the Un-Americans feel like talking about or we feel like asking them. Please use the show discussion threads for any current-season discussion.

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Angus G - Jun 30, 2003 5:05:39 am PDT #5391 of 9843
Roguish Laird

Ha! Beautifully put, Nutty. I might steal "I am a key data point in a complex system of signification" for my own personal use, if you don't mind.


Nutty - Jun 30, 2003 5:45:49 am PDT #5392 of 9843
"Mister Spock is on his fanny, sir. Reports heavy damage."

Go for it, Angus. I actually started out with it as key log is a logjam, but I realized that I was being obscure and should stick entirely to human-sacrifice metaphors made out of logic and computer-systems terminology.

Curse you, Paddle-to-the-Sea!


Madrigal Costello - Jun 30, 2003 6:13:34 am PDT #5393 of 9843
It's a remora, dimwit.

Well, I read a lot less than most other fic writers, partially for lack of time, partially because I read enough crap for work and school - so unless something gets a lot of recommendations, or the writer is asking for some criticism, I tend to avoid it. It takes like, twenty good fic's to get the taste of bad fic out. The benefit is getting to feel superior to someone within the fandom - sort of like being in rehab and thinking, "Well, at least I've never sold my children for crack."


erikaj - Jun 30, 2003 6:15:29 am PDT #5394 of 9843
Always Anti-fascist!

BWAH! And, wrod.


Fay - Jun 30, 2003 10:07:15 am PDT #5395 of 9843
"Fuck Western ideologically-motivated gender identification!" Sulu gasped, and came.

Strangely, the idea of writing fanfiction attracts me more than reading it. Are there any well-known fic authors who notoriously don't read any fanfiction other than their own? (I know that idea kind of goes against the grain of fanfiction, being a "community" thing and all.)

Well, there's arguably two poles or paradigms within the fanfic community - those whose interest is primarily in community and those whose interest is primarily in writing. Most people fall somewhere in the middle. I do read, but not all that much these days. I'm way more engaged in the writing - I mean, I read things haphazardly, but I'm flittering about from fandom to fandom quite cheerfully and reading things on the basis of recs or of them being by people I rate. For example, my Big F*ckoff Epic is a piece of Harry Potter futurefic - and I've really read very little HP fanfic, and have limited interest in the fandom. I'm not all that emotionally engaged with canon - not the way I am with Firefly or BtVS or AtS. But it provided a good jumping-off point for a story, and now I'm 50,000 words into it, with another 20,000 or so still to be written. But I don't much follow the fandom, outwith the inimitable AJ Hall and my darling Fearless Diva.

Kassto, I understand your qualms, but it's worth keeping in mind that an awful lot of the dissing that fans (particularly genre fans) get is purely to do with snobbery. It's socially acceptable to be able to quote Shakespeare's plays and to know them inside out. It's socially acceptable to be able to reel off statistics pertaining to any variety of ballgame. It's not so sociably acceptable to be equally passionate about speculative fiction or pop culture. But this is just nonsense, it really is; people get passionate about all kinds of stuff, and if you love it, if it moves you, if it speaks to you - then that's cool. I couldn't give a damn about any flavour of ballgame, but narrative is my crack cocaine and I love juxtapositions of sublime and ridiculous. I love language, and action, and bravado. I love storytelling, and I love swashbuckling - give me The Iliad or Eastenders over Wimbledon any day of the week. Buffy has depths and shallows and both are lovely. It's not flawless, certainly, but it's fresh and witty and wonderfully endearing, and it's a show that is conscious of its own cliches and stereotypes and continues to play games with them. There's nothing embarassing about falling in love with this show - it may feel embarassing, but that's about other people's misconceptions and their prejudices, rather than about the show's worth. A lot of people are, regrettably, pretty dumb. This means they miss out on lots of good stuff because they're worrying about what is or isn't cool. Bugger that for a game of soldiers. So long as you aren't hurting anyone else, then damn well follow your bliss, however far from the mainstream it may take you.

But, hey - I've embraced my inner anorak. In fact, I'm wearing it on my head right now, and it's fucking great. ;o)


erikaj - Jun 30, 2003 10:16:31 am PDT #5396 of 9843
Always Anti-fascist!

I'm still sort of ambivalent about the fanfiction thing myself, Kassto. I start stuff and then I have trouble and stop. And really my own stuff should come first, cause, well, money, or hope of same. And, well, some of it scares me.But some of it is So. Damn. Good.(But I kind of went in thinking "What kind of a dork does that?" Anorak to you Ukistas.) My kind of dork, I think.


Madrigal Costello - Jun 30, 2003 11:25:14 am PDT #5397 of 9843
It's a remora, dimwit.

I admit I'm a bit of a snob, but not about the act of ficcing itself. It's just the crap stuff. It's sort of like how some dismiss rap or country music altogether and don't even consider it music, and others simply choose to only listen and write the good stuff. I enjoy reading the Patsy Clines of fanfic, not the Shania Twains.


Nutty - Jun 30, 2003 11:28:08 am PDT #5398 of 9843
"Mister Spock is on his fanny, sir. Reports heavy damage."

Madrigal and I are one in our fanfic snobbery. As snobbery goes, I feel pretty good about it.


Typo Boy - Jun 30, 2003 11:39:22 am PDT #5399 of 9843
Calli: My people have a saying. A man who trusts can never be betrayed, only mistaken.Avon: Life expectancy among your people must be extremely short.

And some of us don't think country music died with Patsy, and enjoy the musical stylings of "That Don't Impress Me Much".


Kassto - Jun 30, 2003 2:23:47 pm PDT #5400 of 9843
`He combed his hair, Put on a shirt that his mother made, And he went on the air...'

Yes, Typo Boy. Nothing wrong with Don't Impress Me Much. The thing I like about Shania Twain is she has a real live womanly sexy twinkle in her eye (as well as a hell of a voice). Not one of those plastic Faith Hill types.

Good country music: Roseanne Cash singing Elvis Costello's Our Little Angel, Kris Kristofferson singing Lovin' You Was Easier (Than Anything I'll Ever Do Again), Steve Earle doing The Mountain. And any great female country voice doing Stand By Your Man and Angel of the Morning.